4 ms·

"...if you did something bad 10 years ago you can be caught and arrested for it today". There is no period of limitation? And what is "something bad"? For exam

by rini17 5y ago

"...if you did something bad 10 years ago you can be caught and arrested for it today". There is no period of limitation? And what is "something bad"? For example someone 10 years ago, accepted bitcoin in exchange by paying fiat pizza delivery to an US citizen, is that classifiable as money laundering?

rafale 5y ago
You are protected by the Statue of Not Worth It. Stay small. Fly under the radar. You are not gonna make them famous or advance their career.
- piyh 5y ago
  Until you write a critical article on someone important or sleep with a cybercrime guy's wife. There is no under the radar in big data, you are present and accounted for by default.
  - Scoundreller 5y ago
    With big data, everyone is the list. It still matters where you rank on it, but instead of just the top10 being fairly accurate, the top8b is fairly accurate.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- jmnicolas 5y ago
  > You are protected by the Statue of Not Worth It. It can be automated and fined. This is why I'm totally against central band digital currencies, the potential for abuse is tremendous.
- dannyw 5y ago
  Alternatively, donate to political candidates, spend a few thousand dollars on events and fundraisers. Meet and greet, just to get your name out there. If you ever face criminal troubles, you might have someone in power who you can call. And they might make a call to the DA or field office, and they may have a change of mind.
  - Clubber 5y ago
    Dunno why this was downvoted. This is how things tend work when humans are involved.
elliekelly 5y ago
For most financial crimes in the US the federal statute of limitations is 10 years. There’s also a “knowledge” element to the crime of money laundering. So let’s say someone sold a pizza for bitcoin a decade ago and it just so happens that bitcoin was obtained through unlawful conduct. Now the pizza seller might have technically, arguably, “laundered” the funds but as long as the pizza seller didn’t know the bitcoin was from criminal activity the pizza seller didn’t commit the crime of money laundering. They lacked the requisite criminal intent. This knowledge element is why the FBI’s email to Tornado is critical to the case. The agent specifically told Tornado the funds were obtained through illegal means so the DOJ can demonstrate Tornado had actual knowledge of the purpose of the transaction: structuring rather than privacy. (In theory at least. According to the post the email was never acknowledged or responded to.)
- jl2718 5y ago
  Does Tornado.cash even have the ability to block transactions?
  - elliekelly 5y ago
    I have no idea but from a legal perspective I don’t think it’s relevant to the question of whether or not they’ve committed the crime of money laundering. Although I’m not sure anyone has tried the “my algorithm is beyond of my control” defense yet?
    - dannyw 5y ago
      There exists code that functionally cannot be deactivated, disabled, or removed on the blockchain (Uniswap is a good exmaple, no admin keys). Let's say the SEC prosecutes Uniswap Labs for running a securities exchange. What they cannot do, and what no one can do, is shut down the underlying code behind Uniswap.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- 5y ago
davidgerard 5y ago
There is a statute of limitations. But in the general case: if you're going to do crimes, it's probably not so smart to do them on a permanent immutable public ledger of all transactions.
- jmnicolas 5y ago
  The "crime" might be you made a modest profit on some crypto and "forgot" to report it to the IRS.
  - dboreham 5y ago
    That's a non-air-quotes crime. But the statute of limitations is 10 years.
  - quartz 5y ago
    For a modest unreported profit, assuming you converted it back to USD at an exchange that reports to the IRS, you'll probably get a CP2000 in the mail many years later with your recalculated back taxes (probably assuming a $0 cost basis that you'll have to provide records to dispute) + interest.
  - davidgerard 5y ago
    yes, that is indeed a crime, and not a "crime".
ashtonkem 5y ago
Statue of limitations might apply.
- tromp 5y ago
  Seinfeld covered that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq8gfaFqFpI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq8gfaFqFpI
ac29 5y ago
There is no statute of limitation on civil tax fraud in the US. There is a limitation on criminal tax fraud, but for example, filing a false return to evade taxes (such as by not reporting cryptocurrency related capital gains) is a civil matter and the IRS is unrestricted in being able to attempt to collect the correct amount of tax at any point in time. edit: see https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6501 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6501 for the exceptions.
encryptluks2 5y ago
Note often statute of limitations often does not begin until discovery or "when the plaintiff has a complete and present cause of action.", and if they can't charge you criminally then that discovery rule may apply to civil or state law.

by rini17 5y ago

rafale 5y ago

You are protected by the Statue of Not Worth It. Stay small. Fly under the radar. You are not gonna make them famous or advance their career.

piyh 5y ago
Until you write a critical article on someone important or sleep with a cybercrime guy's wife. There is no under the radar in big data, you are present and accounted for by default.
- Scoundreller 5y ago
  With big data, everyone is the list. It still matters where you rank on it, but instead of just the top10 being fairly accurate, the top8b is fairly accurate.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jmnicolas 5y ago
> You are protected by the Statue of Not Worth It. It can be automated and fined. This is why I'm totally against central band digital currencies, the potential for abuse is tremendous.
dannyw 5y ago
Alternatively, donate to political candidates, spend a few thousand dollars on events and fundraisers. Meet and greet, just to get your name out there. If you ever face criminal troubles, you might have someone in power who you can call. And they might make a call to the DA or field office, and they may have a change of mind.
- Clubber 5y ago
  Dunno why this was downvoted. This is how things tend work when humans are involved.

elliekelly 5y ago

For most financial crimes in the US the federal statute of limitations is 10 years. There’s also a “knowledge” element to the crime of money laundering. So let’s say someone sold a pizza for bitcoin a decade ago and it just so happens that bitcoin was obtained through unlawful conduct. Now the pizza seller might have technically, arguably, “laundered” the funds but as long as the pizza seller didn’t know the bitcoin was from criminal activity the pizza seller didn’t commit the crime of money laundering. They lacked the requisite criminal intent. This knowledge element is why the FBI’s email to Tornado is critical to the case. The agent specifically told Tornado the funds were obtained through illegal means so the DOJ can demonstrate Tornado had actual knowledge of the purpose of the transaction: structuring rather than privacy. (In theory at least. According to the post the email was never acknowledged or responded to.)

jl2718 5y ago
Does Tornado.cash even have the ability to block transactions?
- elliekelly 5y ago
  I have no idea but from a legal perspective I don’t think it’s relevant to the question of whether or not they’ve committed the crime of money laundering. Although I’m not sure anyone has tried the “my algorithm is beyond of my control” defense yet?
  - dannyw 5y ago
    There exists code that functionally cannot be deactivated, disabled, or removed on the blockchain (Uniswap is a good exmaple, no admin keys). Let's say the SEC prosecutes Uniswap Labs for running a securities exchange. What they cannot do, and what no one can do, is shut down the underlying code behind Uniswap.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
5y ago

davidgerard 5y ago

There is a statute of limitations. But in the general case: if you're going to do crimes, it's probably not so smart to do them on a permanent immutable public ledger of all transactions.

jmnicolas 5y ago
The "crime" might be you made a modest profit on some crypto and "forgot" to report it to the IRS.
- dboreham 5y ago
  That's a non-air-quotes crime. But the statute of limitations is 10 years.
- quartz 5y ago
  For a modest unreported profit, assuming you converted it back to USD at an exchange that reports to the IRS, you'll probably get a CP2000 in the mail many years later with your recalculated back taxes (probably assuming a $0 cost basis that you'll have to provide records to dispute) + interest.
- davidgerard 5y ago
  yes, that is indeed a crime, and not a "crime".

ashtonkem 5y ago

Statue of limitations might apply.

tromp 5y ago
Seinfeld covered that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq8gfaFqFpI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq8gfaFqFpI

ac29 5y ago

There is no statute of limitation on civil tax fraud in the US. There is a limitation on criminal tax fraud, but for example, filing a false return to evade taxes (such as by not reporting cryptocurrency related capital gains) is a civil matter and the IRS is unrestricted in being able to attempt to collect the correct amount of tax at any point in time. edit: see https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6501 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/6501 for the exceptions.

encryptluks2 5y ago

Note often statute of limitations often does not begin until discovery or "when the plaintiff has a complete and present cause of action.", and if they can't charge you criminally then that discovery rule may apply to civil or state law.