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We know that the spike protein itself causes damage. For adults that’s almost never an issue, but I feel like the overarching recommendation that pregnant women

We know that the spike protein itself causes damage. For adults that’s almost never an issue, but I feel like the overarching recommendation that pregnant women get the vaccine is misguided. It doesn’t make much sense to get it if they’ve already had COVID or are still working from home. If those aren’t true then the risk is probably worth it as a raging infection would almost certainly be worse for the baby. I just wish there was some nuance in our government’s recommendations.

smt88 5y ago
The spike protein absolutely does not cause damage. Please cite a reputable source. The claim that the spike protein is dangerous in and of itself is a fixture of anti-vax disinformation online. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/06/08/fact-check-proteins-covid-19-vaccines-arent-dangerous-toxins/7505236002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/06/08/fac...
- dTal 5y ago
  I fear there is a very common phenomenon nowadays - especially in the world of covid - where the wrong people say something for the wrong reasons, which makes right thinking people automatically dismiss it. It's a trap and we shouldn't fall into it. You can't say "The spike protein absolutely does not cause damage". That's going too far. Speaking as someone who doesn't pay attention to whatever the conspiracy theory of the day is, I have nevertheless always wondered about the effect of of proteins in the blood whose sole purpose is to breach cell walls. Your comment motivated me to do a quick google. There are in fact many reputable papers hinting at unpredictable spike protein effects. Here's three: SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Induces Degradation of Junctional Proteins That Maintain Endothelial Barrier Integrity [0] The SARS-CoV-2 spike protein alters barrier function in 2D static and 3D microfluidic in-vitro models of the human blood–brain barrier [1] SARS-CoV-2 spike proteins disrupt the blood-brain barrier, new research shows [2] [0] https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcvm.2021.687783/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcvm.2021.68778... [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096999612030406X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096999612... [2] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201029141941.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201029141941.h...
  - mikeyjk 5y ago
    As someone feeling a bit rough after my first Pfizer dose and generally is a hypochondriac - nooooo
    - dTal 5y ago
      Hey man, right here with you feeling rough after jab #2 :) The roughness is your immune system, not the spike protein itself per se, which is why jab #2 makes you feel a lot rougher - your immune system goes ape the second time. A little perspective - one way or another, we're all going to be exposed to this damn spike protein eventually, and the vaccine is by far the safer way. If it does do something bad, we haven't noticed it yet, which presumably means it can't be that bad. I haven't seen any reports of people getting long covid from a jab.
- AuryGlenz 5y ago
  In addition to the links dTal commented with, your own link says this: "While it is true that the spike protein has 'superantigen' properties, which means it has the POTENTIAL to cause adverse effects, we know that it doesn’t cause these effects in many infected patients, it doesn’t cause many of these superantigen effects in most vaccinated individuals, and the levels are incredibly low in the blood, suggesting this shouldn’t be a concern," he said." Many, most, etc. is a pretty far cry from "absolutely does not." I already said for most people it shouldn't be an issue. Could it be developmentally harming fetuses? Maybe we'll find out 10 years from now that they'll have a slightly lower IQ than they should. Or maybe for adults we'll see an increase in autoimmune diseases a few years from now. Or, hopefully, there will be no widespread long term effects. These things take time to suss out. I'm so incredibly sick of absolutism reigning over everything now. It should be perfectly acceptable to have a nuanced opinion over who should take the vaccine instead of everyone or noone.

smt88 5y ago

The spike protein absolutely does not cause damage. Please cite a reputable source. The claim that the spike protein is dangerous in and of itself is a fixture of anti-vax disinformation online. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/06/08/fact-check-proteins-covid-19-vaccines-arent-dangerous-toxins/7505236002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/06/08/fac...

dTal 5y ago
I fear there is a very common phenomenon nowadays - especially in the world of covid - where the wrong people say something for the wrong reasons, which makes right thinking people automatically dismiss it. It's a trap and we shouldn't fall into it. You can't say "The spike protein absolutely does not cause damage". That's going too far. Speaking as someone who doesn't pay attention to whatever the conspiracy theory of the day is, I have nevertheless always wondered about the effect of of proteins in the blood whose sole purpose is to breach cell walls. Your comment motivated me to do a quick google. There are in fact many reputable papers hinting at unpredictable spike protein effects. Here's three: SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Induces Degradation of Junctional Proteins That Maintain Endothelial Barrier Integrity [0] The SARS-CoV-2 spike protein alters barrier function in 2D static and 3D microfluidic in-vitro models of the human blood–brain barrier [1] SARS-CoV-2 spike proteins disrupt the blood-brain barrier, new research shows [2] [0] https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcvm.2021.687783/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcvm.2021.68778... [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096999612030406X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096999612... [2] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201029141941.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/10/201029141941.h...
- mikeyjk 5y ago
  As someone feeling a bit rough after my first Pfizer dose and generally is a hypochondriac - nooooo
  - dTal 5y ago
    Hey man, right here with you feeling rough after jab #2 :) The roughness is your immune system, not the spike protein itself per se, which is why jab #2 makes you feel a lot rougher - your immune system goes ape the second time. A little perspective - one way or another, we're all going to be exposed to this damn spike protein eventually, and the vaccine is by far the safer way. If it does do something bad, we haven't noticed it yet, which presumably means it can't be that bad. I haven't seen any reports of people getting long covid from a jab.
AuryGlenz 5y ago
In addition to the links dTal commented with, your own link says this: "While it is true that the spike protein has 'superantigen' properties, which means it has the POTENTIAL to cause adverse effects, we know that it doesn’t cause these effects in many infected patients, it doesn’t cause many of these superantigen effects in most vaccinated individuals, and the levels are incredibly low in the blood, suggesting this shouldn’t be a concern," he said." Many, most, etc. is a pretty far cry from "absolutely does not." I already said for most people it shouldn't be an issue. Could it be developmentally harming fetuses? Maybe we'll find out 10 years from now that they'll have a slightly lower IQ than they should. Or maybe for adults we'll see an increase in autoimmune diseases a few years from now. Or, hopefully, there will be no widespread long term effects. These things take time to suss out. I'm so incredibly sick of absolutism reigning over everything now. It should be perfectly acceptable to have a nuanced opinion over who should take the vaccine instead of everyone or noone.