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Recklessly polluting a shared and vital resource like the oceans is an act of war. If the US wasn’t busy squandering unimaginable amounts of resources in backwa

Recklessly polluting a shared and vital resource like the oceans is an act of war. If the US wasn’t busy squandering unimaginable amounts of resources in backwaters like Afghanistan, we could be wielding our military might towards genuinely virtuous ends like putting a stop to this criminality. We certainly shouldn’t let ourselves be held hostage and paying them “protection money”

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rubicon33 5y ago
This is the kind of America strong arming that I could get behind.
- intended 5y ago
  I’m sure Russia and China would too. And then use it to open new fronts against America.
SilverRed 5y ago
It would be easier and much cheaper to go in and provide proper waste disposal services than to try to use the military. Don't just send money, send people to go in and fix it.
- iamnotwhoiam 5y ago
  Unfortunately no, that won’t work either. No culture can change it’s behavior without significant buy in from the people which takes a lot of work and time, no matter what you’re trying to do. And more money and more people does not usually mean faster.
  - Bishizel 5y ago
    The problem is we incorrectly assume that if we build something other cultures will just use it. Really we would need to build a good waste system in a really fucked area, then use that system to clean the area up over 2-5 years. Let the example show a better or improved way. This example stage is something we often fail at when attempting to export solutions.
    - micromacrofoot 5y ago
      Right! If the US (or some coalition of nations) recognized this problem and came to an agreement with the Philippines to handle waste management... it would probably be cheaper to handle it on their behalf for 100 years while the country continues to develop rather than try to force a culture change from the outside. Many developing nations don't worry about climate change because frankly they have a lot of shit going on. Manila has a very low quality of life. Would the US have listened to any outsiders if they started complaining to us about smoke during the industrial revolution, the dust bowl, the depression? No way.
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pxtail 5y ago
One could think that multiple failed military interventions through decades which resulted in worse mess in the end than at the start could teach some lessons but apparently not. Let's send warships do deal with trash problems - yeeeeee haaaaaw, oh yeah.
- oefrha 5y ago
  When you have an unchecked military, everything looks like an enemy combatant. With a populace conditioned to casually suggest military invasion as a solution to every international (and sometimes domestic) problem, I’m sure history will keep repeating itself.
bouncycastle 5y ago
Wait, you're suggesting we should murder people? If so, I'm out.
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
"we could be wielding our military might towards genuinely virtuous ends like putting a stop to this criminality" Maybe we should start by dealing with our own criminals that ship garbage around the world illegally? https://www.ecowatch.com/us-illegal-plastic-waste-2651126176.html https://www.ecowatch.com/us-illegal-plastic-waste-2651126176...
Peritract 5y ago
If 'reckless pollution' of a shared resource is an act of war, then every country (very definitely including the US) is an aggressor.
micromacrofoot 5y ago
We need to stop thinking in such hostile terms. It just does not work. It's never worked. It didn't work in Afghanistan, it didn't work in Viet Nam, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Honduras, Iran, Iraq... if we want to convince anyone that the planet is worth saving it can't be done while they're looking down the barrel of a gun.

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rubicon33 5y ago

This is the kind of America strong arming that I could get behind.

intended 5y ago
I’m sure Russia and China would too. And then use it to open new fronts against America.

SilverRed 5y ago

It would be easier and much cheaper to go in and provide proper waste disposal services than to try to use the military. Don't just send money, send people to go in and fix it.

iamnotwhoiam 5y ago
Unfortunately no, that won’t work either. No culture can change it’s behavior without significant buy in from the people which takes a lot of work and time, no matter what you’re trying to do. And more money and more people does not usually mean faster.
- Bishizel 5y ago
  The problem is we incorrectly assume that if we build something other cultures will just use it. Really we would need to build a good waste system in a really fucked area, then use that system to clean the area up over 2-5 years. Let the example show a better or improved way. This example stage is something we often fail at when attempting to export solutions.
  - micromacrofoot 5y ago
    Right! If the US (or some coalition of nations) recognized this problem and came to an agreement with the Philippines to handle waste management... it would probably be cheaper to handle it on their behalf for 100 years while the country continues to develop rather than try to force a culture change from the outside. Many developing nations don't worry about climate change because frankly they have a lot of shit going on. Manila has a very low quality of life. Would the US have listened to any outsiders if they started complaining to us about smoke during the industrial revolution, the dust bowl, the depression? No way.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

pxtail 5y ago

One could think that multiple failed military interventions through decades which resulted in worse mess in the end than at the start could teach some lessons but apparently not. Let's send warships do deal with trash problems - yeeeeee haaaaaw, oh yeah.

oefrha 5y ago
When you have an unchecked military, everything looks like an enemy combatant. With a populace conditioned to casually suggest military invasion as a solution to every international (and sometimes domestic) problem, I’m sure history will keep repeating itself.

bouncycastle 5y ago

Wait, you're suggesting we should murder people? If so, I'm out.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago

"we could be wielding our military might towards genuinely virtuous ends like putting a stop to this criminality" Maybe we should start by dealing with our own criminals that ship garbage around the world illegally? https://www.ecowatch.com/us-illegal-plastic-waste-2651126176.html https://www.ecowatch.com/us-illegal-plastic-waste-2651126176...

Peritract 5y ago

If 'reckless pollution' of a shared resource is an act of war, then every country (very definitely including the US) is an aggressor.

micromacrofoot 5y ago

We need to stop thinking in such hostile terms. It just does not work. It's never worked. It didn't work in Afghanistan, it didn't work in Viet Nam, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Honduras, Iran, Iraq... if we want to convince anyone that the planet is worth saving it can't be done while they're looking down the barrel of a gun.