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in that sense Biden's legacy is cleaning up the mess and not leaving it to the future president

by redandblack 5y ago

khuey 5y ago
He was pretty adamant about that in his speech today.
- nradov 5y ago
  Did you happen to catch his press conference last week? "The drawdown is proceeding in a secure and orderly way" "I also assured Ghani that U.S. support for the people of Afghanistan will endure" "I intend to maintain our diplomatic presence in Afghanistan, and we are coordinating closely with our international partners in order to continue to secure the international airport" "the Afghan troops have 300,000 well-equipped — as well-equipped as any army in the world — and an air force against something like 75,000 Taliban. It is not inevitable." "The Taliban is not the south — the North Vietnamese army. They’re not — they’re not remotely comparable in terms of capability. There’s going to be no circumstance where you see people being lifted off the roof of a embassy in the — of the United States from Afghanistan. It is not at all comparable." https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/07/08/remarks-by-president-biden-on-the-drawdown-of-u-s-forces-in-afghanistan/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/20...
  - enkid 5y ago
    If anything, the events of the last week have proven it's the right choice.
bitexploder 5y ago
You are being downvoted heavily and I know it’s against HN etiquette to meta comment like this, but it feels worthwhile. I don’t even think you are wrong. However clumsily this is going it’s not even hindsight to say this was a probable and even a more likely outcome. Realistically, there wasn’t much Biden could have done, unless we endorsed another trillion plus dollars to maybe effect some change that would let a more democratic government possibly survive. It was always a tall order. The military industrial complex thrives on this permawar and it’s a net loss because that machine is greased with blood and pain.
- busymom0 5y ago
  We are not talking about the likely outcome or whether US should have stayed longer. Obviously this was the likely outcome and leaving was the right move. But the way they left is a complete disaster. The proper order to pull out is to: 1. Remove the diplomats, embassy staff, translators and other Afghani helpers who were promised safety in return of helping the Americans first. 2. Remove the military equipment - guns, drones, choppers, humvees etc second so that it doesn't fall in the Taliban's hands. At least destroy these equipment if it can't be logistically brought back. Destroy the bases so Taliban can't use them. 3. Lastly pull out the droops as all the important soft targets have already been taken out. These 3 should have been done in winter before May (original deal was for May) because the Taliban has problems in the winter weather. Instead of this order, they did the exact opposite. US sat on its ass, didn't remove the soft targets or even take care of those who helped the US. US just pulled out the troops and we ended up with videos of Afghanis running and falling off of aeroplanes and Taliban getting hold of humvees and choppers. And since summer time is when Taliban is at its easiest to move around, the airports have also been taken over. And now to take out the soft targets, they have sent 9000 troops back in along with the UK. The Afghanis who had helped Americans for 2 decades got abandoned and are now gonna get killed by the Taliban.
miked85 5y ago
The vast majority of Americans wanted out of Afghanistan. That isn't the issue. The issue is with the way it was done.
- jjoonathan 5y ago
  It couldn't have happened any other way. That's why the last two presidents promised it and failed to deliver.
  - miked85 5y ago
    They could have got US civilians and allies out first - there is no reason it had to happen this way.
    - x86_64Ubuntu 5y ago
      Everyone knew we were leaving, Trump set the date. Why folks were still hanging around I'll never know.
      - miked85 5y ago
        Trump set a date; that date came and went. Besides, Biden has rescinded dozens of Trump policies, his hands were hardly tied on this.
    - jjoonathan 5y ago
      Yes, there is. People want to believe that orderly evacuation is merely a function of planning. It isn't. * Diplomats -- needed to show support for the government we put in place until it fell. It was always going to fall, so there was always going to be a scramble to get them out. This dynamic has happened before and it will happen again. It's a function of diplomacy, not planning. * Afghani Allies -- we have to draw the line somewhere at who we evacuate, the line was always going to leave some people out who thought they should be evacuated, and that was always going to be a tragedy. The tragedy is a function of line drawing, not planning. * Equipment -- we left equipment for the Afghani government. We could have taken it or destroyed it, but that would have been a vote of no confidence in the government we notionally supported, so diplomacy says we leave it and the taliban gets it. Again a function of diplomacy, not planning. If you try to throw planning and resources at problems that are actually fundamental, what happens is that you announce a troop surge and then 8 years later your presidency is over and you are no closer to leaving Afghanistan.

in that sense Biden's legacy is cleaning up the mess and not leaving it to the future president

khuey 5y ago

He was pretty adamant about that in his speech today.

nradov 5y ago
Did you happen to catch his press conference last week? "The drawdown is proceeding in a secure and orderly way" "I also assured Ghani that U.S. support for the people of Afghanistan will endure" "I intend to maintain our diplomatic presence in Afghanistan, and we are coordinating closely with our international partners in order to continue to secure the international airport" "the Afghan troops have 300,000 well-equipped — as well-equipped as any army in the world — and an air force against something like 75,000 Taliban. It is not inevitable." "The Taliban is not the south — the North Vietnamese army. They’re not — they’re not remotely comparable in terms of capability. There’s going to be no circumstance where you see people being lifted off the roof of a embassy in the — of the United States from Afghanistan. It is not at all comparable." https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/07/08/remarks-by-president-biden-on-the-drawdown-of-u-s-forces-in-afghanistan/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/20...
- enkid 5y ago
  If anything, the events of the last week have proven it's the right choice.

bitexploder 5y ago

You are being downvoted heavily and I know it’s against HN etiquette to meta comment like this, but it feels worthwhile. I don’t even think you are wrong. However clumsily this is going it’s not even hindsight to say this was a probable and even a more likely outcome. Realistically, there wasn’t much Biden could have done, unless we endorsed another trillion plus dollars to maybe effect some change that would let a more democratic government possibly survive. It was always a tall order. The military industrial complex thrives on this permawar and it’s a net loss because that machine is greased with blood and pain.

busymom0 5y ago
We are not talking about the likely outcome or whether US should have stayed longer. Obviously this was the likely outcome and leaving was the right move. But the way they left is a complete disaster. The proper order to pull out is to: 1. Remove the diplomats, embassy staff, translators and other Afghani helpers who were promised safety in return of helping the Americans first. 2. Remove the military equipment - guns, drones, choppers, humvees etc second so that it doesn't fall in the Taliban's hands. At least destroy these equipment if it can't be logistically brought back. Destroy the bases so Taliban can't use them. 3. Lastly pull out the droops as all the important soft targets have already been taken out. These 3 should have been done in winter before May (original deal was for May) because the Taliban has problems in the winter weather. Instead of this order, they did the exact opposite. US sat on its ass, didn't remove the soft targets or even take care of those who helped the US. US just pulled out the troops and we ended up with videos of Afghanis running and falling off of aeroplanes and Taliban getting hold of humvees and choppers. And since summer time is when Taliban is at its easiest to move around, the airports have also been taken over. And now to take out the soft targets, they have sent 9000 troops back in along with the UK. The Afghanis who had helped Americans for 2 decades got abandoned and are now gonna get killed by the Taliban.

miked85 5y ago

The vast majority of Americans wanted out of Afghanistan. That isn't the issue. The issue is with the way it was done.

jjoonathan 5y ago
It couldn't have happened any other way. That's why the last two presidents promised it and failed to deliver.
- miked85 5y ago
  They could have got US civilians and allies out first - there is no reason it had to happen this way.
  - x86_64Ubuntu 5y ago
    Everyone knew we were leaving, Trump set the date. Why folks were still hanging around I'll never know.
    - miked85 5y ago
      Trump set a date; that date came and went. Besides, Biden has rescinded dozens of Trump policies, his hands were hardly tied on this.
  - jjoonathan 5y ago
    Yes, there is. People want to believe that orderly evacuation is merely a function of planning. It isn't. * Diplomats -- needed to show support for the government we put in place until it fell. It was always going to fall, so there was always going to be a scramble to get them out. This dynamic has happened before and it will happen again. It's a function of diplomacy, not planning. * Afghani Allies -- we have to draw the line somewhere at who we evacuate, the line was always going to leave some people out who thought they should be evacuated, and that was always going to be a tragedy. The tragedy is a function of line drawing, not planning. * Equipment -- we left equipment for the Afghani government. We could have taken it or destroyed it, but that would have been a vote of no confidence in the government we notionally supported, so diplomacy says we leave it and the taliban gets it. Again a function of diplomacy, not planning. If you try to throw planning and resources at problems that are actually fundamental, what happens is that you announce a troop surge and then 8 years later your presidency is over and you are no closer to leaving Afghanistan.