7 ms·

Well, suppose they became aware. Then what?

mistrial9 5y ago
I tried telling random adults on the main street in my University town that Target was using non-disclosed facial recognition, about four years ago, for a while. The rate of response was less than half for people to show concern. I also somewhat-randomly discovered a local "facial aware" security system installer at the coffee shop. Once he noticed I was asking pointed questions about consent, he changed his tone and said "yeah I install a bunch of high tech shit" and ended the conversation. Weeks later I saw him driving by and rode my bicycle next to him in traffic making a scene (saying nothing that could be construed as a threat). He was a little shaken that time I hope. As a US Citizen I am strongly opposed to non-disclosed facial recognition in commercial settings. The covid masking is almost like Greek-fable humor of the gods, rendering even ATM (perfect picture) facial recognition moot.
- lowkey_ 5y ago
  > Weeks later I saw him driving by and rode my bicycle next to him in traffic making a scene while saying nothing that could be construed as a threat. He was a little shaken that time I hope. You tried to subtly threaten and shake up the owner of a local coffee shop, weeks later, as revenge for not entertaining your questions about the features of his security system?
  - mistrial9 5y ago
    I did no threatening or revenge, and you should definitely retract that statement.
    - lowkey_ 5y ago
      You made a scene, while intentionally avoiding saying anything that could be construed as a threat (which is generally an attempt at subtle threatening), and you hope that you shook him up. To remove that part: you hope that you shook up a local business owner for not entertaining your questions about the features of his security system?
      - Scoundreller 5y ago
        Why so much respect for someone just because they're a business owner? Sounds more like someone liked surveillance but got shaken up by sousveillance.
        lowkey_ 5y ago
        I would mention it if they were his neighbor or a cab driver as well. It's not a matter of respect, but this person simply installed a security system for their safety. They're obviously not extremely technical. They're just trying to go about their day, serve their customers and make a living, and go home. My point in that wording is that it's some random local person in the community, not the head of the NSA's PRISM program. It's actually crazy to try and shake that person up for installing security cameras in their coffee shop and not getting everyone who walks in to sign a consent form to be recorded.
        mistrial9 5y ago
        ok we have to close this thread but I will say that a) you have several assumptions there that I know are not this case b) I own my actions and I repeat it here for the group c) many systems of law are changed over time; the law has not caught up to the tech, and it is up to people in daylight to make the world, not backroom deals or secret profiles. I will stick with that one - this is a Daylight Action if you see what I mean
        Scoundreller 5y ago
        > It's not a matter of respect, but this person simply installed a security system for their safety. And OP asked questions about it and got brushed off. At least in most of Canada (not even EU), if you’re collecting personal info, you have to answer to how/what/why you collected it and provide notice of that too.
  - gentleman11 5y ago
    Following somebody on the street is less threatening than filming them for lifelong worldwide tracking and profiling
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      If you followed one specific person perhaps, but just doing that in your store? Seems like a stretch.
- thepasswordis 5y ago
  >saying nothing that could be construed as a threat. >He was a little shaken that time I hope. Choose one of these.
  - mistrial9 5y ago
    informed consent - pick two .. expanded the sentence might be "shaken from his onerous and insular attitude to one of realization that others are not able to agree if they are not informed"
- emodendroket 5y ago
  Surprising that these tactics did not work.
blagie 5y ago
Then we can stop going to stores and shop more online, since another upside of bricks-and-mortar is gone.
- celim307 5y ago
  Hard to say if all the data collection that happens online is any better
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    Isn't that the point? No way out really.
    - dopylitty 5y ago
      Sure there’s a way out. Elect representatives who will vote to outlaw the use of facial recognition and other tracking technologies.
      - emodendroket 5y ago
        There are many things I wish they would do and this isn't at the top of the list for me.
        blagie 5y ago
        That's kind of why we have broken laws. People vote for what's on the top of their list, which is always one side of the abortion debate, the gun debate, the social justice/identity politics debate, or otherwise. The stuff further down, in aggregate, matters a lot more, and is universally corrupt.
        emodendroket 5y ago
        Not sure those are the top ones either but let's grant the point. What do you think voters should be doing instead?
ramraj07 5y ago
Normalize masks? Let them figure my face from that!
- fundamental 5y ago
  They're trying to recognize your face anyway. e.g. see https://pages.nist.gov/frvt/html/frvt_facemask.html https://pages.nist.gov/frvt/html/frvt_facemask.html It looks like the testing is still done in relation to synthetic masks, but I could see that shifting over time. Absolutely repugnant that the industry is targeting masked individuals, but it's happening none the less.
  - ramraj07 5y ago
    Mask, hoodie and a cooler and I'm sure they can't do crap. They can try gait but it's a losing proposition anyway.
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      The traditional Japanese bank robber getup (I guess because these were common items anyway) is surgical mask and sunglasses.
gumby 5y ago
Then they will reject anti-virus software so we should be fine.

I tried telling random adults on the main street in my University town that Target was using non-disclosed facial recognition, about four years ago, for a while. The rate of response was less than half for people to show concern. I also somewhat-randomly discovered a local "facial aware" security system installer at the coffee shop. Once he noticed I was asking pointed questions about consent, he changed his tone and said "yeah I install a bunch of high tech shit" and ended the conversation. Weeks later I saw him driving by and rode my bicycle next to him in traffic making a scene (saying nothing that could be construed as a threat). He was a little shaken that time I hope. As a US Citizen I am strongly opposed to non-disclosed facial recognition in commercial settings. The covid masking is almost like Greek-fable humor of the gods, rendering even ATM (perfect picture) facial recognition moot.

lowkey_ 5y ago
> Weeks later I saw him driving by and rode my bicycle next to him in traffic making a scene while saying nothing that could be construed as a threat. He was a little shaken that time I hope. You tried to subtly threaten and shake up the owner of a local coffee shop, weeks later, as revenge for not entertaining your questions about the features of his security system?
- mistrial9 5y ago
  I did no threatening or revenge, and you should definitely retract that statement.
  - lowkey_ 5y ago
    You made a scene, while intentionally avoiding saying anything that could be construed as a threat (which is generally an attempt at subtle threatening), and you hope that you shook him up. To remove that part: you hope that you shook up a local business owner for not entertaining your questions about the features of his security system?
    - Scoundreller 5y ago
      Why so much respect for someone just because they're a business owner? Sounds more like someone liked surveillance but got shaken up by sousveillance.
      - lowkey_ 5y ago
        I would mention it if they were his neighbor or a cab driver as well. It's not a matter of respect, but this person simply installed a security system for their safety. They're obviously not extremely technical. They're just trying to go about their day, serve their customers and make a living, and go home. My point in that wording is that it's some random local person in the community, not the head of the NSA's PRISM program. It's actually crazy to try and shake that person up for installing security cameras in their coffee shop and not getting everyone who walks in to sign a consent form to be recorded.
        mistrial9 5y ago
        ok we have to close this thread but I will say that a) you have several assumptions there that I know are not this case b) I own my actions and I repeat it here for the group c) many systems of law are changed over time; the law has not caught up to the tech, and it is up to people in daylight to make the world, not backroom deals or secret profiles. I will stick with that one - this is a Daylight Action if you see what I mean
        Scoundreller 5y ago
        > It's not a matter of respect, but this person simply installed a security system for their safety. And OP asked questions about it and got brushed off. At least in most of Canada (not even EU), if you’re collecting personal info, you have to answer to how/what/why you collected it and provide notice of that too.
- gentleman11 5y ago
  Following somebody on the street is less threatening than filming them for lifelong worldwide tracking and profiling
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    If you followed one specific person perhaps, but just doing that in your store? Seems like a stretch.
thepasswordis 5y ago
>saying nothing that could be construed as a threat. >He was a little shaken that time I hope. Choose one of these.
- mistrial9 5y ago
  informed consent - pick two .. expanded the sentence might be "shaken from his onerous and insular attitude to one of realization that others are not able to agree if they are not informed"
emodendroket 5y ago
Surprising that these tactics did not work.

blagie 5y ago

Then we can stop going to stores and shop more online, since another upside of bricks-and-mortar is gone.

celim307 5y ago
Hard to say if all the data collection that happens online is any better
- emodendroket 5y ago
  Isn't that the point? No way out really.
  - dopylitty 5y ago
    Sure there’s a way out. Elect representatives who will vote to outlaw the use of facial recognition and other tracking technologies.
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      There are many things I wish they would do and this isn't at the top of the list for me.
      - blagie 5y ago
        That's kind of why we have broken laws. People vote for what's on the top of their list, which is always one side of the abortion debate, the gun debate, the social justice/identity politics debate, or otherwise. The stuff further down, in aggregate, matters a lot more, and is universally corrupt.
        emodendroket 5y ago
        Not sure those are the top ones either but let's grant the point. What do you think voters should be doing instead?

ramraj07 5y ago

Normalize masks? Let them figure my face from that!

fundamental 5y ago
They're trying to recognize your face anyway. e.g. see https://pages.nist.gov/frvt/html/frvt_facemask.html https://pages.nist.gov/frvt/html/frvt_facemask.html It looks like the testing is still done in relation to synthetic masks, but I could see that shifting over time. Absolutely repugnant that the industry is targeting masked individuals, but it's happening none the less.
- ramraj07 5y ago
  Mask, hoodie and a cooler and I'm sure they can't do crap. They can try gait but it's a losing proposition anyway.
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    The traditional Japanese bank robber getup (I guess because these were common items anyway) is surgical mask and sunglasses.

gumby 5y ago

Then they will reject anti-virus software so we should be fine.