6 ms·

I feel a bit privileged, and in a dangerous way, because feeling like you're special can be an illusion that is easily shattered. Here's what I mean. If I was

I feel a bit privileged, and in a dangerous way, because feeling like you're special can be an illusion that is easily shattered. Here's what I mean. If I was born earlier, like say a baby boomer, I'd have less education in critical thinking, but I'd also be more protected by the news media than the time when gen Z grew up. By that I mean most of the stuff in the paper at the time was down the middle, somewhat bland but serious, and the editors took it upon themselves to keep things balanced. They'd acknowledge other viewpoints and think properly about how to fit in their own perspectives. If I was a gen Z kid, it was and is all a blur. Just loads of crap mixed in with everything. Chaos, no particular authority is obvious. More time spent in education but also more noise. Fewer cultural lighthouses since everyone is watching different things (both news and wider culture) and able to stay within whatever they already believe. When I grew up I had a leg in each era. I still think some papers are better than others. But I also see the cacophony of crap for what it is. Boomers have ended up in this world too and it's horrifying. My university educated in laws in the UK are doubting the outcome of elections in the US. They come up with crazy things from time to time, like they're missing a critical thinking inoculation.

rcurry 5y ago
Writing off an entire generation of people as lacking critical thinking skills seems a bit short-sighted.
- epgui 5y ago
  No generation in History thus far has demonstrated general possession of this skill.
  - bilbo0s 5y ago
    As is evidenced by writing off the critical thinking skills of others. None of us are terribly good at critical thinking. Now I think about it, that likely particularly applies to those of us who believe we are great at critical thinking.
    - epgui 5y ago
      Some people are adequately humble on some occasions, but statistically speaking you're very correct about whom this applies to. (Personal side note: This shouldn't mean we throw our hands up in the air in hopelessness, but it should remind us that we all have a mandate to be more critical of our own thinking than of that of others.)
- lordnacho 5y ago
  I'm not writing off entire generations, these are just generalities. It's a bit sad to have to caveat everything one says with "but of course there are still people who know how to think", because it's fairly obvious that certain unsaid things are the case.
- OneLeggedCat 5y ago
  If that's short-sighted, then it is only because that should also be applied to every generation. Most people of every generation in the world still believe in magic, which excuses any need to fully develop critical thinking skills.
  - rcurry 5y ago
    Magic?
    - rootusrootus 5y ago
      Religion, no doubt.
- curation 5y ago
  Agreed. I don't think my parents generation lack critical thinking skills. They are dedicated to being individuated bootstrap pullers and live in this dissonance - because of course we live fully interdependant from birth. They see that everyone else has an ideology, except them, and so they generate their own truth inside and see any attempt at discussion of things they've never thought of as threat. They are the 'end of history' (Fukiyama) - the best music, the best culture, the best geopolitics, the best economy - and tho history has changed and we symbolically register that as ridiculous as well as the idea of a western sovereign subject - they cannot because their entire identity is at stake. At least these are the lies I tell myself so I stay gentle with them as they fade out.
tomp 5y ago
> My university educated in laws in the UK are doubting the outcome of elections in the US. Democracy is like science. If you don’t constantly doubt at least a little bit and check the outcome continuously, but instead just trust blindly, you’re doing it wrong.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  > If you don’t constantly doubt at least a little bit Pretty sure we've gone quite a lot farther than a little bit.
- verygoodname 5y ago
  Ah, yes... the "if I put everything in doubt, even the most painfully obvious things, it makes me seem smart" crowd. Here's the thing, though: if one is basing their "doubts" on random brainfarts or propaganda pieces they saw on youtube or facebook and decided to trust blindly, they're probably also doing it wrong. Skepticism that is not accompanied by critical thinking, actual knowledge, intellectual honesty and a dash of humility is useless or worse. TL;DR: Epistemology is hard, but "just doubt everything" is not it, chief.
  - Chris2048 5y ago
    Are you accusing tomp of being part of that crowd? Seems an uncharitable interpretation of their words.
    - verygoodname 5y ago
      Not at all. Just criticizing his blanket statement, apparently used to justify "doubting the results of US elections": "doubting" just for the sake of doubting, particularly when it feeds into narratives being driven by trolls, disinformation and hidden agendas, doesn't do Democracy or Truth any service. I'm going to go ahead and assume that the people in question (that are doubting the results of the US elections) are rather "skeptical" towards (so called) mainstream media, but not as much when it comes to the random crap on fox news, ann, youtube and facebook. If this is the case, then this makes them more "useful idiots" than actual "skeptics", in my opinion. TL;DR: "Doubting blindly" (usually based on whatever Fox News or 4chan is spreading today) is as at least as bad as "trusting blindly".
jhanschoo 5y ago
> I'd also be more protected by the news media than the time when gen Z grew up. By that I mean most of the stuff in the paper at the time was down the middle, somewhat bland but serious, and the editors took it upon themselves to keep things balanced. Is this really true? Or is it an illusion due to you being the target audience of the MSM then? For example, there are no lack of claims and incidents of media bias for the pre-naughts in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_bias_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_bias_in_the_United_State...

rcurry 5y ago

Writing off an entire generation of people as lacking critical thinking skills seems a bit short-sighted.

epgui 5y ago
No generation in History thus far has demonstrated general possession of this skill.
- bilbo0s 5y ago
  As is evidenced by writing off the critical thinking skills of others. None of us are terribly good at critical thinking. Now I think about it, that likely particularly applies to those of us who believe we are great at critical thinking.
  - epgui 5y ago
    Some people are adequately humble on some occasions, but statistically speaking you're very correct about whom this applies to. (Personal side note: This shouldn't mean we throw our hands up in the air in hopelessness, but it should remind us that we all have a mandate to be more critical of our own thinking than of that of others.)
lordnacho 5y ago
I'm not writing off entire generations, these are just generalities. It's a bit sad to have to caveat everything one says with "but of course there are still people who know how to think", because it's fairly obvious that certain unsaid things are the case.
OneLeggedCat 5y ago
If that's short-sighted, then it is only because that should also be applied to every generation. Most people of every generation in the world still believe in magic, which excuses any need to fully develop critical thinking skills.
- rcurry 5y ago
  Magic?
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    Religion, no doubt.
curation 5y ago
Agreed. I don't think my parents generation lack critical thinking skills. They are dedicated to being individuated bootstrap pullers and live in this dissonance - because of course we live fully interdependant from birth. They see that everyone else has an ideology, except them, and so they generate their own truth inside and see any attempt at discussion of things they've never thought of as threat. They are the 'end of history' (Fukiyama) - the best music, the best culture, the best geopolitics, the best economy - and tho history has changed and we symbolically register that as ridiculous as well as the idea of a western sovereign subject - they cannot because their entire identity is at stake. At least these are the lies I tell myself so I stay gentle with them as they fade out.

tomp 5y ago

> My university educated in laws in the UK are doubting the outcome of elections in the US. Democracy is like science. If you don’t constantly doubt at least a little bit and check the outcome continuously, but instead just trust blindly, you’re doing it wrong.

rootusrootus 5y ago
> If you don’t constantly doubt at least a little bit Pretty sure we've gone quite a lot farther than a little bit.
verygoodname 5y ago
Ah, yes... the "if I put everything in doubt, even the most painfully obvious things, it makes me seem smart" crowd. Here's the thing, though: if one is basing their "doubts" on random brainfarts or propaganda pieces they saw on youtube or facebook and decided to trust blindly, they're probably also doing it wrong. Skepticism that is not accompanied by critical thinking, actual knowledge, intellectual honesty and a dash of humility is useless or worse. TL;DR: Epistemology is hard, but "just doubt everything" is not it, chief.
- Chris2048 5y ago
  Are you accusing tomp of being part of that crowd? Seems an uncharitable interpretation of their words.
  - verygoodname 5y ago
    Not at all. Just criticizing his blanket statement, apparently used to justify "doubting the results of US elections": "doubting" just for the sake of doubting, particularly when it feeds into narratives being driven by trolls, disinformation and hidden agendas, doesn't do Democracy or Truth any service. I'm going to go ahead and assume that the people in question (that are doubting the results of the US elections) are rather "skeptical" towards (so called) mainstream media, but not as much when it comes to the random crap on fox news, ann, youtube and facebook. If this is the case, then this makes them more "useful idiots" than actual "skeptics", in my opinion. TL;DR: "Doubting blindly" (usually based on whatever Fox News or 4chan is spreading today) is as at least as bad as "trusting blindly".

jhanschoo 5y ago

> I'd also be more protected by the news media than the time when gen Z grew up. By that I mean most of the stuff in the paper at the time was down the middle, somewhat bland but serious, and the editors took it upon themselves to keep things balanced. Is this really true? Or is it an illusion due to you being the target audience of the MSM then? For example, there are no lack of claims and incidents of media bias for the pre-naughts in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_bias_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_bias_in_the_United_State...