5 ms·

How is this a scam? It sounds more like a case of using outdated business listings.

gambiting 5y ago
Even if the business is legitimate, you can usually just pin it wherever you want on Google maps so it shows in your local search.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Nextgrid 5y ago
Scammers will set up fake businesses everywhere with the phone numbers all routing back to the same boiler room from where they’ll dispatch some low-quality contractor who’ll do a bad job and overcharge you for it. Wikipedia has an article for it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locksmith_scam https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locksmith_scam A comment below suggests this isn't limited to locksmiths and other trades are affected too.
- Ansil849 5y ago
  Oh wow, had no idea about this.
  - ljf 5y ago
    I had similar trying to get quotes for a plumber to fit a boiler in London. After phoning the first person in the Yellow Pages and booking an appointment for them to come and quote, I moved down the list. 8 of the first 10 I called admitted to just being the same company, using different names - they obvs only wanted to book in to quote once! When they came they were lovely but there quote was very low and also low on detail for what they'd do. I found someone local in the end. Old school spam!
    - Nextgrid 5y ago
      I was wondering why this was so specific to locksmiths as I imagined the same would apply to other trades. Thanks for confirming my suspicions. I guess when it comes to licensed trades the best course of action is to ignore Google or similar unaccountable cesspools and see if that trades' licensing organization provides a list of licensed tradespeople - unlike Google they typically have an incentive to keep it clean and spam-free (unless someone wants to pay to pass the certification multiple times under different names I guess?).
      - astura 5y ago
        >I was wondering why this was so specific to locksmiths Because you're locked out of your house, you usually need to get in ASAP, especially if it's late at night. You're in a vulnerable and low-knowledge position (most people aren't familiar with their local locksmiths). Its also not in a position that anyone expects to ever be in. So you call the "closest" place on Google maps.
- josefx 5y ago
  My parents fell for that, guy completely disassembled to front door and then told them that he needed to fetch a fitting lock and would be back tomorrow. They ended up paying for two round trips to the next city when they specifically asked if the company was local.
  - taneq 5y ago
    It probably was actually local given everything else about this story.
- amelius 5y ago
  Why is it so hard to get laws against people who are clearly abusing the system? I mean this is black hat hacking, but in meatspace.
  - baby 5y ago
    My guess is that governments deal with people who try to abuse the law in all sorts of way everywhere. Creating small laws for these things is like playing cat and mouse with millions of mice. If you create a law that is too general to catch many at the same time then you risk hurting legitimate businesses.
    - amelius 5y ago
      But anyone can see that this is abuse. That's what we have judges for, right? I mean, if a judge is there only to follow the letter of the law we could replace them by a computer.
      - jowsie 5y ago
        It's certainly a lot more profitable.
    - AlbertCory 5y ago
      If you read about the Craigslist scam I commented on: the police consider financial crimes like this to be their very lowest priority. You can't blame it on judges if the cases never get prosecuted.
      - kook_throwaway 5y ago
        Understandable, hiding behind a left-to-right merge where you have to choose between getting hit by the truck that's tailgating you or speeding for a few seconds is far more important police work.
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    This can be considered fraud or false advertising, I'm pretty sure there are existing laws that would cover it. The problem is that the current legal system wasn't designed to deal with abuse at the scale these platforms provide, and there doesn't seem to be any political pressure to change it. A simple solution would be to consider the platforms complicit in whatever crime ends up being assisted by them. Someone got duped by a scam ad? The ad platform should be held liable. The market will do the rest, as the platforms will now have an incentive not to be implicated in these problems and will tighten up their rules and compliance processes to make it harder for scammers to operate. You won't believe how many things Silicon Valley claims "impossible" suddenly become possible when they get hit in their wallet.
- alvah 5y ago
  I did some local SEO work for a glazier a few years ago, their main rival in the map pack (top 3 listings appear on a map in a local Google search) was doing exactly this. Google were exactly 0 help at trying to clean up the obviously fake listings too.
gravypod 5y ago
This video has a demo of what is happening: https://youtu.be/bvlzZnhZhrc?t=851 https://youtu.be/bvlzZnhZhrc?t=851 Essentially if you make a bunch of fake listings all around the State you work in people who are desperate will search for "X near me" and if you have the most dots it will resolve to you. This means more panicked buyers which directly translates to way more money.
- Ansil849 5y ago
  Thanks for this. This was very informative, and now I'm hooked on Marketplace episodes!
- astura 5y ago
  Beyond that, the people they send out are low paid and only trained to drill the lock and install a new one (for ~$300+) where if you got a reputable locksmith they would just be able to pick it for much cheaper. The scam companies will quote $25 over the phone ("if we can pick it") and the caller assumes that's the normal condition.

Even if the business is legitimate, you can usually just pin it wherever you want on Google maps so it shows in your local search.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Nextgrid 5y ago

Scammers will set up fake businesses everywhere with the phone numbers all routing back to the same boiler room from where they’ll dispatch some low-quality contractor who’ll do a bad job and overcharge you for it. Wikipedia has an article for it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locksmith_scam https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locksmith_scam A comment below suggests this isn't limited to locksmiths and other trades are affected too.

Ansil849 5y ago
Oh wow, had no idea about this.
- ljf 5y ago
  I had similar trying to get quotes for a plumber to fit a boiler in London. After phoning the first person in the Yellow Pages and booking an appointment for them to come and quote, I moved down the list. 8 of the first 10 I called admitted to just being the same company, using different names - they obvs only wanted to book in to quote once! When they came they were lovely but there quote was very low and also low on detail for what they'd do. I found someone local in the end. Old school spam!
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    I was wondering why this was so specific to locksmiths as I imagined the same would apply to other trades. Thanks for confirming my suspicions. I guess when it comes to licensed trades the best course of action is to ignore Google or similar unaccountable cesspools and see if that trades' licensing organization provides a list of licensed tradespeople - unlike Google they typically have an incentive to keep it clean and spam-free (unless someone wants to pay to pass the certification multiple times under different names I guess?).
    - astura 5y ago
      >I was wondering why this was so specific to locksmiths Because you're locked out of your house, you usually need to get in ASAP, especially if it's late at night. You're in a vulnerable and low-knowledge position (most people aren't familiar with their local locksmiths). Its also not in a position that anyone expects to ever be in. So you call the "closest" place on Google maps.
josefx 5y ago
My parents fell for that, guy completely disassembled to front door and then told them that he needed to fetch a fitting lock and would be back tomorrow. They ended up paying for two round trips to the next city when they specifically asked if the company was local.
- taneq 5y ago
  It probably was actually local given everything else about this story.
amelius 5y ago
Why is it so hard to get laws against people who are clearly abusing the system? I mean this is black hat hacking, but in meatspace.
- baby 5y ago
  My guess is that governments deal with people who try to abuse the law in all sorts of way everywhere. Creating small laws for these things is like playing cat and mouse with millions of mice. If you create a law that is too general to catch many at the same time then you risk hurting legitimate businesses.
  - amelius 5y ago
    But anyone can see that this is abuse. That's what we have judges for, right? I mean, if a judge is there only to follow the letter of the law we could replace them by a computer.
    - jowsie 5y ago
      It's certainly a lot more profitable.
  - AlbertCory 5y ago
    If you read about the Craigslist scam I commented on: the police consider financial crimes like this to be their very lowest priority. You can't blame it on judges if the cases never get prosecuted.
    - kook_throwaway 5y ago
      Understandable, hiding behind a left-to-right merge where you have to choose between getting hit by the truck that's tailgating you or speeding for a few seconds is far more important police work.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  This can be considered fraud or false advertising, I'm pretty sure there are existing laws that would cover it. The problem is that the current legal system wasn't designed to deal with abuse at the scale these platforms provide, and there doesn't seem to be any political pressure to change it. A simple solution would be to consider the platforms complicit in whatever crime ends up being assisted by them. Someone got duped by a scam ad? The ad platform should be held liable. The market will do the rest, as the platforms will now have an incentive not to be implicated in these problems and will tighten up their rules and compliance processes to make it harder for scammers to operate. You won't believe how many things Silicon Valley claims "impossible" suddenly become possible when they get hit in their wallet.
alvah 5y ago
I did some local SEO work for a glazier a few years ago, their main rival in the map pack (top 3 listings appear on a map in a local Google search) was doing exactly this. Google were exactly 0 help at trying to clean up the obviously fake listings too.

gravypod 5y ago

This video has a demo of what is happening: https://youtu.be/bvlzZnhZhrc?t=851 https://youtu.be/bvlzZnhZhrc?t=851 Essentially if you make a bunch of fake listings all around the State you work in people who are desperate will search for "X near me" and if you have the most dots it will resolve to you. This means more panicked buyers which directly translates to way more money.

Ansil849 5y ago
Thanks for this. This was very informative, and now I'm hooked on Marketplace episodes!
astura 5y ago
Beyond that, the people they send out are low paid and only trained to drill the lock and install a new one (for ~$300+) where if you got a reputable locksmith they would just be able to pick it for much cheaper. The scam companies will quote $25 over the phone ("if we can pick it") and the caller assumes that's the normal condition.