4 ms·

I haven't used Debian in very long time. Have they converged on some alternative to the PPA? Like if I want the latest GCC or OpenJDK.. surely you don't downlo

by geokon 5y ago

I haven't used Debian in very long time. Have they converged on some alternative to the PPA? Like if I want the latest GCC or OpenJDK.. surely you don't download some AppImage, right?

gspr 5y ago
The laying of some groundwork was recently discussed here: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2021/07/msg00028.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2021/07/msg00028.html
still_grokking 5y ago
There is an unofficial (afik) effort to build something like AUR for Debian. It's quite new I think. https://mpr.hunterwittenborn.com/ https://mpr.hunterwittenborn.com/ (HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27638107 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27638107) But you don't need it for things like the latest GCC or OpenJDK as stuff like that is usually available form the Testing or Unstable Debian branches.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  If you're running Debian Stable, using the backports repo is generally preferable to installing packages from the testing or unstable channels. The latter will give you an unsupported configuration that might be broken to begin with, or break without warning in the future as stuff gets upgraded further.
  - geokon 5y ago
    I just checked and `openjdk-15-jdk` `openjdk-16-jdk` are only on sid/unstable - which `openjdk-17-jdk` is only on testing. So yeah, the only alternative is mixing version which is playing with fire. These seems like pretty basic distro problems, no? Since no one seems bothered I figured I was missing some obvious solution.
    - zozbot234 5y ago
      The bullseye-backports repo is just being started, so these packages will most likely be available there sometime in the future.
    - still_grokking 5y ago
      Testing is (almost) Stable right now. They included a JDK17 pre-release so an upgrade though backports in a month will be easier than. (It's in the release notes linked here). Same reason why v15 and v16 are only in Unstable right now: They where not meant to be released for Debian 11, so removed from Testing. Usually Testing and Unstable are mostly in sync. Besides the packages in Unstable that are causing serous trouble of course. But right now Testing is mostly identical to the (still next) Stable Debian 11. So it makes no sense judging availability of packages in Testing right now until the release is out.
tomc1985 5y ago
Huh? Just add the vendor repos to APT and install through them... no need for anything exotic
goodpoint 5y ago
Do not install OS components from unofficial sources. Regardless of OS or Linux distribution, there is no way to guarantee an unofficial package will not break your OS. You can instead use dedicated directories, virtualenvs, chroots, firejail sandboxing, systemd nspawn containers.
e2le 5y ago
If necessary, it's possible to install either the Guix or Nix package managers and then get the specific version of GCC you want that way. https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/guix https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/guix Likely, this is more preferable than unofficial apt repositories or Docker.
- geokon 5y ago
  Not a bad idea! guix has openjdk, gcc, clang, cmake etc. Seems a lot more mature than last I checked. How easily does this play with a dev environment? Am I gunna have to do weird things to make tools find their toolchains? I tried to grok Nix a few times and never understood how it works (since it seems like a rolling release where every package can build against any version of its dependencies).

by geokon 5y ago

I haven't used Debian in very long time. Have they converged on some alternative to the PPA? Like if I want the latest GCC or OpenJDK.. surely you don't download some AppImage, right?

gspr 5y ago

The laying of some groundwork was recently discussed here: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2021/07/msg00028.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2021/07/msg00028.html

still_grokking 5y ago

There is an unofficial (afik) effort to build something like AUR for Debian. It's quite new I think. https://mpr.hunterwittenborn.com/ https://mpr.hunterwittenborn.com/ (HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27638107 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27638107) But you don't need it for things like the latest GCC or OpenJDK as stuff like that is usually available form the Testing or Unstable Debian branches.

zozbot234 5y ago
If you're running Debian Stable, using the backports repo is generally preferable to installing packages from the testing or unstable channels. The latter will give you an unsupported configuration that might be broken to begin with, or break without warning in the future as stuff gets upgraded further.
- geokon 5y ago
  I just checked and `openjdk-15-jdk` `openjdk-16-jdk` are only on sid/unstable - which `openjdk-17-jdk` is only on testing. So yeah, the only alternative is mixing version which is playing with fire. These seems like pretty basic distro problems, no? Since no one seems bothered I figured I was missing some obvious solution.
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    The bullseye-backports repo is just being started, so these packages will most likely be available there sometime in the future.
  - still_grokking 5y ago
    Testing is (almost) Stable right now. They included a JDK17 pre-release so an upgrade though backports in a month will be easier than. (It's in the release notes linked here). Same reason why v15 and v16 are only in Unstable right now: They where not meant to be released for Debian 11, so removed from Testing. Usually Testing and Unstable are mostly in sync. Besides the packages in Unstable that are causing serous trouble of course. But right now Testing is mostly identical to the (still next) Stable Debian 11. So it makes no sense judging availability of packages in Testing right now until the release is out.

tomc1985 5y ago

Huh? Just add the vendor repos to APT and install through them... no need for anything exotic

goodpoint 5y ago

Do not install OS components from unofficial sources. Regardless of OS or Linux distribution, there is no way to guarantee an unofficial package will not break your OS. You can instead use dedicated directories, virtualenvs, chroots, firejail sandboxing, systemd nspawn containers.

e2le 5y ago

If necessary, it's possible to install either the Guix or Nix package managers and then get the specific version of GCC you want that way. https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/guix https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/guix Likely, this is more preferable than unofficial apt repositories or Docker.

geokon 5y ago
Not a bad idea! guix has openjdk, gcc, clang, cmake etc. Seems a lot more mature than last I checked. How easily does this play with a dev environment? Am I gunna have to do weird things to make tools find their toolchains? I tried to grok Nix a few times and never understood how it works (since it seems like a rolling release where every package can build against any version of its dependencies).