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This is by far the biggest misstep of Tim Cook’s tenure at Apple thus far. If they don’t kill this program soon, it’s going to overshadow the entire upcoming i

This is by far the biggest misstep of Tim Cook’s tenure at Apple thus far. If they don’t kill this program soon, it’s going to overshadow the entire upcoming iPhone event, and will follow Apple around like a dark cloud for years. I can see the headlines now: “New iPhone launches amid massive new privacy concerns.” Anytime someone praises Apple for privacy, anywhere on the internet, there will be a tidal wave of people bringing up this program in rebuttal. From people who would have previously defended Apple to the grave! I cannot fathom how on earth anybody thought this was a good idea. It’s like taking decades and billions of dollars worth of hard won reputation for privacy and throwing it in the garbage at the worst possible moment.

n8cpdx 5y ago
The folks who choose iPhone in part because of a perception of relative privacy and respect for the user (like myself) will think twice. My two concerns are that Android as an ecosystem is almost certainly still worse, and that the vast majority of users will not care. I’m tempted to jailbreak my devices going forward, although I guess the folks at Apple would say that makes me a pedophile. Edit: seeking recommendations for Android phones with strong performance and reasonable privacy protections. Ideally one that can be used without a Google account.
- ucm_edge 5y ago
  I'm very nostalgic for Blackberry again. I feel like on a platform where the whole point was to prevent anyone who wasn't the corporate IT department from being able to access it, this local code execution would have been a massive non starter.
- rkagerer 5y ago
  I put LineageOS on an S5 a while back (with gApps, but there are non-Google alternatives) and it went pretty smoothly. Works with several more modern phones.
- lifty 5y ago
  You can use something like CalyxOS with a pixel 5
- cavemancoffee 5y ago
  I'm switching to a Pixel 3 or 4 running CalyxOS, GrapheneOS, or LineageOS. I'm eager to have my choice of OS on my phone, build it myself, etc. https://calyxos.org/get/ https://calyxos.org/get/ https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-support https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-support https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/ https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/
  - n8cpdx 5y ago
    Thanks, that seems to be the right answer. I just recently migrated everything to Apple + iCloud, but now it appears to be time to switch to synology+pixel/graphene+Firefox Apparently obsidian.md can be end-to-end encrypted through their service, for anyone else planning to ditch iCloud.
- ashneo76 5y ago
  Android devices are much more open than iOS devices. There are quite a few alternative OSs with much more privacy than Google and Apple Unlike Apple, Android devices are not vendor locked into just one OS.
- mda 5y ago
  I would never ever touch anything made by Apple from now on. I was never a fan, but was considering getting an ipad for drawing etc. After this, Never.
encryptluks2 5y ago
> It’s like taking decades and billions of dollars worth of hard won reputation for privacy and throwing it in the garbage at the worst possible moment. How gullible Apple users are to think that their closed-source ecosystem was ever about privacy, but I still don't think they'll learn. It is a cult and will continue being a cult.
jollybean 5y ago
This I think is a bit of HN myopia. I've talked around and nobody I know is even aware of this, when I brought it up, they didn't care about the issue. It's not news in the commons, it's not on CNN, Fox or MSNBC right now as a headline. It's one of those tertiary concerns that frustrates some groups, but most people are not aware and would only marginally maligned, and a good 2/3 of people really don't care. I suspect most people would have a difficult time with the 'slippery slope' issue and would accept the 'it's for the children' terms at face value. It is what it is, but it's worth understanding how regular people think about these issues.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- zarzavat 5y ago
  That's true. However, Apple is part of the same tech bubble as HN users. There are Apple employees reading this thread right now. Most regular people don't care about privacy either and just follow soundbites in the mainstream media e.g. "WhatsApp is spying on you!!!". But as long as HN/Apple think that they do then all is good.
- pembrook 5y ago
  Just wait until the September event. Apple’s media attention quadruples during that time. “Apple creates authoritarian government wet dream” will be the main narrative coming out of the iPhone event. Not the new phone. And investors will not be happy.
  - zepto 5y ago
    I doubt that. I mentioned it to a non-tech person today. They hadn’t seen the news, and their first instinct was to empathize with the Apple executives having to confront that their products are enabling pedophiles.
    - katbyte 5y ago
      hearin the number of CSAM reports apple made (265) vs facebook (10 million) changed my perspective. i don't like it but they are going to have to start scanning icloud photos sometime
Jxl180 5y ago
If they kill the program, headlines will read: “Apple refuses to protect sexually abused children” or “Apple sides with protecting child pornographers.” I anecdotally see no backlash outside of HN and the tech/libertarian-focused parts of Reddit. To the casual iPhone buyer making up their billions in revenue, turning back on the program wouldn’t be good optics. Obviously my statement is purely conjecture, I’ll admit that.
- newsbinator 5y ago
  There's surprisingly high backlash on /r/apple
- pembrook 5y ago
  You’re not seeing the backlash yet because normies don’t pay attention to Apple outside of the September iPhone event (when coverage breaks into the mainstream for a few days). Look at Google trends data for the search term “Apple.” It spikes every September by like 70% for a week. I can guarantee you, every average joe learning about the new iPhone from mainstream media, is going to hear a sound byte about this fiasco as well. I’ll be surprised if this program isn’t dead within 2 months.
- pcurve 5y ago
  I don't think they have to compromise on the CP protection. They can just go along with what other cloud storage providers have been doing all along... that is, "we won't snoop into your phone, because that's yours. but if you upload photos to iCloud, onto OUR servers, then we reserve the right to scan for images in CP database.." And I think most people will be perfectly fine with that idea. Just like you sign away some rights and accept risk when you decide to store items in physical storage facility, same thing will happen when you use iCloud.

n8cpdx 5y ago

The folks who choose iPhone in part because of a perception of relative privacy and respect for the user (like myself) will think twice. My two concerns are that Android as an ecosystem is almost certainly still worse, and that the vast majority of users will not care. I’m tempted to jailbreak my devices going forward, although I guess the folks at Apple would say that makes me a pedophile. Edit: seeking recommendations for Android phones with strong performance and reasonable privacy protections. Ideally one that can be used without a Google account.

ucm_edge 5y ago
I'm very nostalgic for Blackberry again. I feel like on a platform where the whole point was to prevent anyone who wasn't the corporate IT department from being able to access it, this local code execution would have been a massive non starter.
rkagerer 5y ago
I put LineageOS on an S5 a while back (with gApps, but there are non-Google alternatives) and it went pretty smoothly. Works with several more modern phones.
lifty 5y ago
You can use something like CalyxOS with a pixel 5
cavemancoffee 5y ago
I'm switching to a Pixel 3 or 4 running CalyxOS, GrapheneOS, or LineageOS. I'm eager to have my choice of OS on my phone, build it myself, etc. https://calyxos.org/get/ https://calyxos.org/get/ https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-support https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-support https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/ https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/
- n8cpdx 5y ago
  Thanks, that seems to be the right answer. I just recently migrated everything to Apple + iCloud, but now it appears to be time to switch to synology+pixel/graphene+Firefox Apparently obsidian.md can be end-to-end encrypted through their service, for anyone else planning to ditch iCloud.
ashneo76 5y ago
Android devices are much more open than iOS devices. There are quite a few alternative OSs with much more privacy than Google and Apple Unlike Apple, Android devices are not vendor locked into just one OS.
mda 5y ago
I would never ever touch anything made by Apple from now on. I was never a fan, but was considering getting an ipad for drawing etc. After this, Never.

encryptluks2 5y ago

> It’s like taking decades and billions of dollars worth of hard won reputation for privacy and throwing it in the garbage at the worst possible moment. How gullible Apple users are to think that their closed-source ecosystem was ever about privacy, but I still don't think they'll learn. It is a cult and will continue being a cult.

jollybean 5y ago

This I think is a bit of HN myopia. I've talked around and nobody I know is even aware of this, when I brought it up, they didn't care about the issue. It's not news in the commons, it's not on CNN, Fox or MSNBC right now as a headline. It's one of those tertiary concerns that frustrates some groups, but most people are not aware and would only marginally maligned, and a good 2/3 of people really don't care. I suspect most people would have a difficult time with the 'slippery slope' issue and would accept the 'it's for the children' terms at face value. It is what it is, but it's worth understanding how regular people think about these issues.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
zarzavat 5y ago
That's true. However, Apple is part of the same tech bubble as HN users. There are Apple employees reading this thread right now. Most regular people don't care about privacy either and just follow soundbites in the mainstream media e.g. "WhatsApp is spying on you!!!". But as long as HN/Apple think that they do then all is good.
pembrook 5y ago
Just wait until the September event. Apple’s media attention quadruples during that time. “Apple creates authoritarian government wet dream” will be the main narrative coming out of the iPhone event. Not the new phone. And investors will not be happy.
- zepto 5y ago
  I doubt that. I mentioned it to a non-tech person today. They hadn’t seen the news, and their first instinct was to empathize with the Apple executives having to confront that their products are enabling pedophiles.
  - katbyte 5y ago
    hearin the number of CSAM reports apple made (265) vs facebook (10 million) changed my perspective. i don't like it but they are going to have to start scanning icloud photos sometime

Jxl180 5y ago

If they kill the program, headlines will read: “Apple refuses to protect sexually abused children” or “Apple sides with protecting child pornographers.” I anecdotally see no backlash outside of HN and the tech/libertarian-focused parts of Reddit. To the casual iPhone buyer making up their billions in revenue, turning back on the program wouldn’t be good optics. Obviously my statement is purely conjecture, I’ll admit that.

newsbinator 5y ago
There's surprisingly high backlash on /r/apple
pembrook 5y ago
You’re not seeing the backlash yet because normies don’t pay attention to Apple outside of the September iPhone event (when coverage breaks into the mainstream for a few days). Look at Google trends data for the search term “Apple.” It spikes every September by like 70% for a week. I can guarantee you, every average joe learning about the new iPhone from mainstream media, is going to hear a sound byte about this fiasco as well. I’ll be surprised if this program isn’t dead within 2 months.
pcurve 5y ago
I don't think they have to compromise on the CP protection. They can just go along with what other cloud storage providers have been doing all along... that is, "we won't snoop into your phone, because that's yours. but if you upload photos to iCloud, onto OUR servers, then we reserve the right to scan for images in CP database.." And I think most people will be perfectly fine with that idea. Just like you sign away some rights and accept risk when you decide to store items in physical storage facility, same thing will happen when you use iCloud.