5 ms·

I'm a parent of two who does NOT plan on putting his kids in public school because I think they won't be served well there (plan on "home schooling"). My 5yo u

by sequoia 15y ago

I'm a parent of two who does NOT plan on putting his kids in public school because I think they won't be served well there (plan on "home schooling"). My 5yo uses Khan Academy and it seems to be great. Finally, I basically hate most aspects of public school. That said, I get sick of everyone piling on public school whenever something like this comes up. Public school is set to the following task: "take everyone, everywhere, all across the country, and bring them to the same level of proficiency across the board, with tightly limited funding and regardless of outside factors." Someone comes along and finds a tool that works on a teeny tiny cohort then climbs on their pedestal and declares their system better than public schools. Personally, I think public schools are being set to an (almost?) impossible task. What the reviewer said in that article about "slow them down please" is obviously abhorrent, but the "They have a monopoly! They're monopolists!" chatter is silly, in my opinion. First of all they don't have a monopoly (for those who can afford it: private charter homeschooling etc.). Secondly, they are just trying to do their best to meet their goals with what they have. It's selfish, yes, but having students at more or less the same level of competency makes it easier for them to do the task to which they've been set. When I was in school, the teacher would often say "Sequoia, that's a great question, but it's a bit advanced and I've got 30 other students here. I can't spend a lot of time answering advanced questions when half the class is struggling with basic concepts." That was annoying and I'm not going to send my kids to public school in part because of it, but I didn't rail against the teacher for being a selfish monopolist. S/he was just doing his/her best given the circumstances and requirements: often times public schools are doing the same. EDIT: an article that informs my thinking here: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/nov/11/myth-charter-schools/?pagination=false http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/nov/11/myth-ch... Great article, whether you've seen Waiting for Superman (hit piece "documentary" about why public schools suck and charter schools are the answer) or not.

pnathan 15y ago
"Sequoia, that's a great question, but it's a bit advanced and I've got 30 other students here. I can't spend a lot of time answering advanced questions when half the class is struggling with basic concepts."" Yep, that happened when I TA'd CS 1. I managed to coopt some of the brighter students into helping the others, but, well, it didn't do much for them inasmuch they wanted to learn CS (they just got some social polishing). Really a pity. :-/
- jleader 15y ago
  Actually, one of the best ways to learn something (even after you think you know it) is to try to explain it to someone who doesn't understand it yet. There's a big difference in depth of understanding between "I can get the right answer to the test questions" and "I can explain the subject well enough that now you'll be able to answer the test questions".
klenwell 15y ago
Well put. Finally, I basically hate most aspects of public school. I was ready to agree with this. But then I reflected. What I really hated were my rotten peers (and, to an extent, my rotten self) from around the start of junior high to the end of high school. They weren't horrible, mind you. Just middle-of-the-distribution-curve kids, with the inevitable psychopath or two. I don't think privatization is going to filter that out. And I rather liked my public community colleges and universities.
- sequoia 15y ago
  By no means universal, merely a reflection of my experiences. For example, I was an exchange student for a year and when I came back I was told I'd get no credits for it because I couldn't produce a report card , so I was held back (i.e. punished for studying in a diff. country for a year). Same year: moved from another state, forced to take freshman "earth & environmental sciences" because it's a state requirement. I requested being able to take AP Environmental Science instead: "no, it's a requirement." So I'm turning 18, held back to 11th grade because I got an exchange scholarship, forced to take a freshman (remedial) course surrounded by kids straight out of middle school (embarrassing and discouraging as a teenager) when I'm willing to take a comparable AP course. This stuff happened with me all throughout school. To be fair I was somewhat lazy, but much of this was due to the feeling of powerlessness and inevitability public school is designed to instill. inb4 someone who had a different, great public school experience. As I said, this is my experience.
  - fleitz 15y ago
    The key with the public school system is to leverage your statistical power. When I was in school I told them I wasn't going to take all the optional blocks and instead would have spares. They said that it was a school policy blah blah blah. I told them that the School Act defined no such requirement and being older than 16 I was no longer required to be in school at all so they could either let me have empty blocks or kick me out for violating the school policy on spare blocks. Being a rather articulate student I would be willing to write a letter to the editor explaining how a student who could sleep through math class and still get an A in the course was being forced out of school despite fulfilling the requirements of the School Act. They could have another graduate on their rolls or another drop out, it was their choice.
niels_olson 15y ago
I can tell you my daughter did very well in most subjects in private school, but had a terrible time with math. We switched her to a public school this year.* She has done better overall, and her math has improved most of all. There are some other factors involved (I'm not in residency, we like where we live in general, we're not facing the possibility of being upside down in a house, etc), but I can't say enough that public vs private is not necessarily the deciding factor it's made out to be when you get down to individual cases. By the way, how, exactly, do you use Kahn Academy? My kids got bored with it. --------- * My wife had worked as a therapist in San Diego schools for years and when we moved back, we targeted a few neighborhoods to move into. Word on the street was that the private schools were no better than the public schools, at least in elementary.
- sequoia 15y ago
  regarding Kahn Academy: I don't know. My 5 year old is competitive so the game mechanics work well. She's been using pbskids.org for years playing educational games, so it comes very naturally at this point. Also, she likes to learn :p Mostly I think it's her competitive nature.
  - niels_olson 15y ago
    Who is she competing with?
    - sequoia 15y ago
      Everyone/herself. Game mechanics: you earn points, you get badges... she wants to be able to say "look what I did." She likes "winning" and you can "win" in the sense of moving forward thru "levels," getting achievements, etc.
      - endgame 15y ago
        I did the same thing, growing up with the various Super Solvers games from The Learning Company (Outnumbered!, Midnight Rescue!, and so on).
dkokelley 15y ago
I was home schooled, and I wish there was a Khan Academy when I was growing up. We did use something similar with DVDs and an electronic blackboard. All in all, it worked out well for me, and I would encourage you to stick with home schooling. If you can, find a private school that allows home study. That way, you can get group field trips and sports activities while staying in control of your child's educational growth.
- sequoia 15y ago
  We'd consider private if we could afford it, but it's fuggin expensive, and with two kids it's out of the question. Interestingly, as home schoolers we're allowed to purchase tickets to local educational events (plays etc.) at the same price as local schools. So if there's a special showing of a play at noon for school kids, we can buy the discounted tickets and go to it. For sports etc., I believe that technically our local schools are obligated to allow our children to join their extracurricular groups, such as sports. As for field trips, that would be nice to be able to go with the private school, but frankly that's the least of my worries. If there's one thing homeschooling (at least how we do it) does better than any other model, it's field trips! :)
  - dkokelley 15y ago
    The two best things about being home schooled for me were A: The ability to work my own schedule. If I wanted to double up on school one day, I could. Then the next day I could skip school and work on a hobby or project. This brings me to B: The ability to focus my studies on things that interested me. For me, this included Battlebots (I made one) and aviation. Aviation was an early career choice that didn't quite manifest for me (blessing in disguise, I suppose). I was able to do things like take the day off of school to copilot with my uncle who worked as a corporate pilot.
    - pbhjpbhj 15y ago
      Could you describe what you mean by "home schooled" a little more. For example: >I was able to do things like take the day off of school to copilot with my uncle // Confuses me because when you're copiloting with your uncle you're being home-schooled; you're not having the day off from education you're just doing it differently (right!). Presumably where you are just being educated at home doesn't fit the definition of "home schooled"?
palish 15y ago
I'm a parent of two who does NOT plan on putting his kids in public school because I think they won't be served well there (plan on "home schooling"). 6th through 12th grade is where people learn that life isn't about smart-ness. It's about social-ness. Are you really comfortable with the idea of potentially stunting one of the most important aspects of your child's abilities --- their ability to interact positively with people? (People other than you. People who don't already like your child.) I was sent to a "Montissouri" school Kindergarten through 3rd grade, and it was ... Well, let's just say it turned out quite badly. Then I was sent to a private school 4th through 8th grade, with small class sizes. It was one of the most terrible experiences of my life. Personally, I wish my parents had sent me to public school, because I believe I would be a better person today.
- sequoia 15y ago
  >Are you really comfortable with the idea of potentially stunting one of the most important aspects of your child's abilities --- their ability to interact positively with people? (People other than you. People who don't already like your child.) heh heh... as someone who's been thru the public school system, I can safely say I don't WANT my kids learning the sort of "social skills" you learn there. You describing it as "interact[ing] positively" has me convinced that your story of not having gone to public school is true. :p It's funny that people always bring this up: social skills. Have you met many home schooled kids? They are some of the most mature, well balanced, intelligent kids I've met. Secondly, what do you think home schoolers do, live in a bubble? Contrariwise, they interact ("socialize," if you prefer) with kids of all ages, as well as adults, in a normal, "real world" context. As for "stunting" my child's abilities: I am absolutely certain public school does this, so I'll take my chances, thank you very much. I don't appreciate your insinuation, by the way.
  - palish 15y ago
    For what it's worth, I apologize. No insinuation was meant, I just misspoke. I'm not a parent, and I certainly don't know how to be a good one...

by sequoia 15y ago

pnathan 15y ago

"Sequoia, that's a great question, but it's a bit advanced and I've got 30 other students here. I can't spend a lot of time answering advanced questions when half the class is struggling with basic concepts."" Yep, that happened when I TA'd CS 1. I managed to coopt some of the brighter students into helping the others, but, well, it didn't do much for them inasmuch they wanted to learn CS (they just got some social polishing). Really a pity. :-/

jleader 15y ago
Actually, one of the best ways to learn something (even after you think you know it) is to try to explain it to someone who doesn't understand it yet. There's a big difference in depth of understanding between "I can get the right answer to the test questions" and "I can explain the subject well enough that now you'll be able to answer the test questions".

klenwell 15y ago

Well put. Finally, I basically hate most aspects of public school. I was ready to agree with this. But then I reflected. What I really hated were my rotten peers (and, to an extent, my rotten self) from around the start of junior high to the end of high school. They weren't horrible, mind you. Just middle-of-the-distribution-curve kids, with the inevitable psychopath or two. I don't think privatization is going to filter that out. And I rather liked my public community colleges and universities.

sequoia 15y ago
By no means universal, merely a reflection of my experiences. For example, I was an exchange student for a year and when I came back I was told I'd get no credits for it because I couldn't produce a report card , so I was held back (i.e. punished for studying in a diff. country for a year). Same year: moved from another state, forced to take freshman "earth & environmental sciences" because it's a state requirement. I requested being able to take AP Environmental Science instead: "no, it's a requirement." So I'm turning 18, held back to 11th grade because I got an exchange scholarship, forced to take a freshman (remedial) course surrounded by kids straight out of middle school (embarrassing and discouraging as a teenager) when I'm willing to take a comparable AP course. This stuff happened with me all throughout school. To be fair I was somewhat lazy, but much of this was due to the feeling of powerlessness and inevitability public school is designed to instill. inb4 someone who had a different, great public school experience. As I said, this is my experience.
- fleitz 15y ago
  The key with the public school system is to leverage your statistical power. When I was in school I told them I wasn't going to take all the optional blocks and instead would have spares. They said that it was a school policy blah blah blah. I told them that the School Act defined no such requirement and being older than 16 I was no longer required to be in school at all so they could either let me have empty blocks or kick me out for violating the school policy on spare blocks. Being a rather articulate student I would be willing to write a letter to the editor explaining how a student who could sleep through math class and still get an A in the course was being forced out of school despite fulfilling the requirements of the School Act. They could have another graduate on their rolls or another drop out, it was their choice.

niels_olson 15y ago

I can tell you my daughter did very well in most subjects in private school, but had a terrible time with math. We switched her to a public school this year.* She has done better overall, and her math has improved most of all. There are some other factors involved (I'm not in residency, we like where we live in general, we're not facing the possibility of being upside down in a house, etc), but I can't say enough that public vs private is not necessarily the deciding factor it's made out to be when you get down to individual cases. By the way, how, exactly, do you use Kahn Academy? My kids got bored with it. --------- * My wife had worked as a therapist in San Diego schools for years and when we moved back, we targeted a few neighborhoods to move into. Word on the street was that the private schools were no better than the public schools, at least in elementary.

sequoia 15y ago
regarding Kahn Academy: I don't know. My 5 year old is competitive so the game mechanics work well. She's been using pbskids.org for years playing educational games, so it comes very naturally at this point. Also, she likes to learn :p Mostly I think it's her competitive nature.
- niels_olson 15y ago
  Who is she competing with?
  - sequoia 15y ago
    Everyone/herself. Game mechanics: you earn points, you get badges... she wants to be able to say "look what I did." She likes "winning" and you can "win" in the sense of moving forward thru "levels," getting achievements, etc.
    - endgame 15y ago
      I did the same thing, growing up with the various Super Solvers games from The Learning Company (Outnumbered!, Midnight Rescue!, and so on).

dkokelley 15y ago

I was home schooled, and I wish there was a Khan Academy when I was growing up. We did use something similar with DVDs and an electronic blackboard. All in all, it worked out well for me, and I would encourage you to stick with home schooling. If you can, find a private school that allows home study. That way, you can get group field trips and sports activities while staying in control of your child's educational growth.

sequoia 15y ago
We'd consider private if we could afford it, but it's fuggin expensive, and with two kids it's out of the question. Interestingly, as home schoolers we're allowed to purchase tickets to local educational events (plays etc.) at the same price as local schools. So if there's a special showing of a play at noon for school kids, we can buy the discounted tickets and go to it. For sports etc., I believe that technically our local schools are obligated to allow our children to join their extracurricular groups, such as sports. As for field trips, that would be nice to be able to go with the private school, but frankly that's the least of my worries. If there's one thing homeschooling (at least how we do it) does better than any other model, it's field trips! :)
- dkokelley 15y ago
  The two best things about being home schooled for me were A: The ability to work my own schedule. If I wanted to double up on school one day, I could. Then the next day I could skip school and work on a hobby or project. This brings me to B: The ability to focus my studies on things that interested me. For me, this included Battlebots (I made one) and aviation. Aviation was an early career choice that didn't quite manifest for me (blessing in disguise, I suppose). I was able to do things like take the day off of school to copilot with my uncle who worked as a corporate pilot.
  - pbhjpbhj 15y ago
    Could you describe what you mean by "home schooled" a little more. For example: >I was able to do things like take the day off of school to copilot with my uncle // Confuses me because when you're copiloting with your uncle you're being home-schooled; you're not having the day off from education you're just doing it differently (right!). Presumably where you are just being educated at home doesn't fit the definition of "home schooled"?

palish 15y ago

I'm a parent of two who does NOT plan on putting his kids in public school because I think they won't be served well there (plan on "home schooling"). 6th through 12th grade is where people learn that life isn't about smart-ness. It's about social-ness. Are you really comfortable with the idea of potentially stunting one of the most important aspects of your child's abilities --- their ability to interact positively with people? (People other than you. People who don't already like your child.) I was sent to a "Montissouri" school Kindergarten through 3rd grade, and it was ... Well, let's just say it turned out quite badly. Then I was sent to a private school 4th through 8th grade, with small class sizes. It was one of the most terrible experiences of my life. Personally, I wish my parents had sent me to public school, because I believe I would be a better person today.

sequoia 15y ago
>Are you really comfortable with the idea of potentially stunting one of the most important aspects of your child's abilities --- their ability to interact positively with people? (People other than you. People who don't already like your child.) heh heh... as someone who's been thru the public school system, I can safely say I don't WANT my kids learning the sort of "social skills" you learn there. You describing it as "interact[ing] positively" has me convinced that your story of not having gone to public school is true. :p It's funny that people always bring this up: social skills. Have you met many home schooled kids? They are some of the most mature, well balanced, intelligent kids I've met. Secondly, what do you think home schoolers do, live in a bubble? Contrariwise, they interact ("socialize," if you prefer) with kids of all ages, as well as adults, in a normal, "real world" context. As for "stunting" my child's abilities: I am absolutely certain public school does this, so I'll take my chances, thank you very much. I don't appreciate your insinuation, by the way.
- palish 15y ago
  For what it's worth, I apologize. No insinuation was meant, I just misspoke. I'm not a parent, and I certainly don't know how to be a good one...