8 ms·

This is going to be Saigon all over again. The pictures coming out of this will be remarkable. That being said, my thoughts go out to the Afghanis who helped us

by jdhn 5y ago

This is going to be Saigon all over again. The pictures coming out of this will be remarkable. That being said, my thoughts go out to the Afghanis who helped us for decades as interpreters and other support roles. Both parties are failing those brave men and women in not expediting approval for them to come to the US, as their lives will assuredly be in danger if they stay in Afghanistan.

onepunchedman 5y ago
I really hope it won't be another Saigon, the videos coming out of the final days are harrowing. A lot of other countries are also closing their embassies for now, and seem to be more willing to bring home Afghans who've helped. In Norway we're also bringing their families.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > I really hope it won't be another Saigon, the videos coming out of the final days are harrowing. Unless Biden changes course, it's going to be another Saigon, whether the pictures show it or not (e.g. they may get the Americans out before the Taliban is too close, and avoid pictures of throngs of desperate allies mobbing the embassy hoping to get evacuated with the last Americans, but most of those allies will still be stranded).
  - onepunchedman 5y ago
    Ye I've already seen images that look exactly like the ones from that evacuation.
- angelzen 5y ago
  Perception >>> Reality Rest assured, there won't be another Saigon. The videos coming out of Afghan countryside and Kabul will be erased by BigTech under some corporate speak reason or another. The masses will never see them. 'Covid Misinformation' (TM) is just the dry run.
2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
I doubt it. The Taliban would be wise to just wait until the evac completes and US troops leave.
- bellyfullofbac 5y ago
  The Saigon heli pic is of South Vietnamese crowds who were desperate to get out of there with the Americans, right? Sure the Taliban can wait, but the "mob" will be the people who were associated with the occupying forces, desperate to escape their deaths.
ren_engineer 5y ago
then let it be another Saigon, what alternative did the US have than pull out? If you know anybody in the military they all say it's worse than it was years ago and only continuing to get worse so the only option was pull out or continue with the sunk cost fallacy of thinking we can somehow fix Afghanistan by doubling down with another troop surge. I'm glad we are finally admitting it was a failure
- nxmnxm99 5y ago
  Another in a long line of US military failures since WW2. I suspect when history looks back at the fall of the US/rise of the East, a common theme will be how much of a lead the US blew as a result of multiple, unnecessary and excruciatingly resource-intensive wars of attrition
  - spfzero 5y ago
    The peak of the US "lead" would seem to be the fall of the Soviet Union. Vietnam etc. was long over by then. Not saying Iraq and Afghanistan weren't unnecessary and expensive. The U.S. and the world would have been better off without them, probably. Saddam and the Taliban, Isis, Al Qaida don't look so dangerous in retrospect. But Islamic "extremism" was the big perceived threat back then, and you could argue that it is less of a threat today, so someones' version of a problem solved.
  - spaetzleesser 5y ago
    The only reason WW2 was a success because it was a real war aiming at total defeat and destruction of the enemy including civilian population. "Liberation" wars where the population is supposed to be saved from oppressive governments always fail. Failed in Vietnam, Iraq and now Afghanistan. Military can't distinguish between "good" and "bad" and a big, confusing mess gets created. WW2 would also have failed if the military had tried to avoid civilian deaths. You simply can't win a war that way,
    - dogman144 5y ago
      Military is pretty goodat that distinction. Government is not. Example: The government never bothered to renew the authorization for the global war on terror given in 2001 until like last year. Mil works best with a clear mission - nation building is not a clear mission.
colechristensen 5y ago
I met a former Afghani interpreter working as an Uber driver in Minneapolis a few years ago, really nice guy. It was during the superbowl, we had a mutual misunderstanding of the appeal of American football. He was going to school and supporting himself driving. A few have had good outcomes but the stories you hear about those waiting years for immigration and many others who were killed for helping the US while waiting... it's just shameful.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  It's really a travesty that we don't have a fast track for the family and friends of anyone who's directly helped us in a foreign nation. More people would be willing to work with us if it was the ticket to a life in the US. It's not like 100k people here or there really matters much in a nation of 300mil.
  - randompwd 5y ago
    It does if they bring all aspects of their traditional culture with them. Do you want tribalism gaining a stronger foothold in US?
  - CincinnatiMan 5y ago
    "President Joe Biden announced this month that evacuation flights from Afghanistan would begin in late July. The Afghans are seeking refuge in the U.S. through the Special Immigrant Visa program, which has enjoyed bipartisan support since its creation for Afghan nationals in 2009. The group heading to Fort Lee includes 700 who qualify for the SIV program; the remaining 1,800 Afghans are their family members." https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/19/us-housing-afghan-refugees-virginia-500150 https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/19/us-housing-afghan-r... It seems there is somewhat of a plan in place that is what you describe.
spaetzleesser 5y ago
"That being said, my thoughts go out to the Afghanis who helped us for decades as interpreters and other support roles. Both parties are failing those brave men and women in not expediting approval for them to come to the US, as their lives will assuredly be in danger if they stay in Afghanistan." The Germans are doing the same. They are leaving people that have helped them behind. Really shameful.
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  "The Germans are doing the same. They are leaving people that have helped them behind. Really shameful." Germany grants 2,400 visas to Afghan employees, relatives https://apnews.com/article/europe-germany-f6bacc58477cd0eb92789954ceab0ba2 https://apnews.com/article/europe-germany-f6bacc58477cd0eb92...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

by jdhn 5y ago

onepunchedman 5y ago

I really hope it won't be another Saigon, the videos coming out of the final days are harrowing. A lot of other countries are also closing their embassies for now, and seem to be more willing to bring home Afghans who've helped. In Norway we're also bringing their families.

tablespoon 5y ago
> I really hope it won't be another Saigon, the videos coming out of the final days are harrowing. Unless Biden changes course, it's going to be another Saigon, whether the pictures show it or not (e.g. they may get the Americans out before the Taliban is too close, and avoid pictures of throngs of desperate allies mobbing the embassy hoping to get evacuated with the last Americans, but most of those allies will still be stranded).
- onepunchedman 5y ago
  Ye I've already seen images that look exactly like the ones from that evacuation.
angelzen 5y ago
Perception >>> Reality Rest assured, there won't be another Saigon. The videos coming out of Afghan countryside and Kabul will be erased by BigTech under some corporate speak reason or another. The masses will never see them. 'Covid Misinformation' (TM) is just the dry run.

2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago

I doubt it. The Taliban would be wise to just wait until the evac completes and US troops leave.

bellyfullofbac 5y ago
The Saigon heli pic is of South Vietnamese crowds who were desperate to get out of there with the Americans, right? Sure the Taliban can wait, but the "mob" will be the people who were associated with the occupying forces, desperate to escape their deaths.

ren_engineer 5y ago

then let it be another Saigon, what alternative did the US have than pull out? If you know anybody in the military they all say it's worse than it was years ago and only continuing to get worse so the only option was pull out or continue with the sunk cost fallacy of thinking we can somehow fix Afghanistan by doubling down with another troop surge. I'm glad we are finally admitting it was a failure

nxmnxm99 5y ago
Another in a long line of US military failures since WW2. I suspect when history looks back at the fall of the US/rise of the East, a common theme will be how much of a lead the US blew as a result of multiple, unnecessary and excruciatingly resource-intensive wars of attrition
- spfzero 5y ago
  The peak of the US "lead" would seem to be the fall of the Soviet Union. Vietnam etc. was long over by then. Not saying Iraq and Afghanistan weren't unnecessary and expensive. The U.S. and the world would have been better off without them, probably. Saddam and the Taliban, Isis, Al Qaida don't look so dangerous in retrospect. But Islamic "extremism" was the big perceived threat back then, and you could argue that it is less of a threat today, so someones' version of a problem solved.
- spaetzleesser 5y ago
  The only reason WW2 was a success because it was a real war aiming at total defeat and destruction of the enemy including civilian population. "Liberation" wars where the population is supposed to be saved from oppressive governments always fail. Failed in Vietnam, Iraq and now Afghanistan. Military can't distinguish between "good" and "bad" and a big, confusing mess gets created. WW2 would also have failed if the military had tried to avoid civilian deaths. You simply can't win a war that way,
  - dogman144 5y ago
    Military is pretty goodat that distinction. Government is not. Example: The government never bothered to renew the authorization for the global war on terror given in 2001 until like last year. Mil works best with a clear mission - nation building is not a clear mission.

colechristensen 5y ago

I met a former Afghani interpreter working as an Uber driver in Minneapolis a few years ago, really nice guy. It was during the superbowl, we had a mutual misunderstanding of the appeal of American football. He was going to school and supporting himself driving. A few have had good outcomes but the stories you hear about those waiting years for immigration and many others who were killed for helping the US while waiting... it's just shameful.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
It's really a travesty that we don't have a fast track for the family and friends of anyone who's directly helped us in a foreign nation. More people would be willing to work with us if it was the ticket to a life in the US. It's not like 100k people here or there really matters much in a nation of 300mil.
- randompwd 5y ago
  It does if they bring all aspects of their traditional culture with them. Do you want tribalism gaining a stronger foothold in US?
- CincinnatiMan 5y ago
  "President Joe Biden announced this month that evacuation flights from Afghanistan would begin in late July. The Afghans are seeking refuge in the U.S. through the Special Immigrant Visa program, which has enjoyed bipartisan support since its creation for Afghan nationals in 2009. The group heading to Fort Lee includes 700 who qualify for the SIV program; the remaining 1,800 Afghans are their family members." https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/19/us-housing-afghan-refugees-virginia-500150 https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/19/us-housing-afghan-r... It seems there is somewhat of a plan in place that is what you describe.

spaetzleesser 5y ago

"That being said, my thoughts go out to the Afghanis who helped us for decades as interpreters and other support roles. Both parties are failing those brave men and women in not expediting approval for them to come to the US, as their lives will assuredly be in danger if they stay in Afghanistan." The Germans are doing the same. They are leaving people that have helped them behind. Really shameful.

hutzlibu 5y ago
"The Germans are doing the same. They are leaving people that have helped them behind. Really shameful." Germany grants 2,400 visas to Afghan employees, relatives https://apnews.com/article/europe-germany-f6bacc58477cd0eb92789954ceab0ba2 https://apnews.com/article/europe-germany-f6bacc58477cd0eb92...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]