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I was definitely confused, for the record. I had the impression that Apple would scan all photos on device, but that is not true. I was also confused because se
by notJim 5y ago
I was definitely confused, for the record. I had the impression that Apple would scan all photos on device, but that is not true. I was also confused because several changes were announced at once, and the conversations sometimes blended them.
- acchow 5y agoIt’s my understanding that the your iPhone would be checking ALL your photos on your device. Where did you get to understand otherwise?
- jb1991 5y agoI thought it was only an iCloud scan, which is perhaps just as bad, but not a scan of anything that only exists on the iPhone itself.
- burlesona 5y agoThat’s what Federighi says in this interview. It’s only scanning photos that are about to be uploaded to iCloud. Otherwise photos aren’t scanned. Disable iCloud and there’s no scanning. Still, I think Apple misjudged the whole cloud vs. device thing in this case. They’ve historically preached a lot about how everything should happen on the users device, not the cloud. I think that got myopic for them, and led them to this decision. But in this case I think users would be much happier if Apple had just said “under pressure from law enforcement we are now scanning photos when they arrive at the iCloud data centers. If you don’t want scanning don’t use iCloud.” Because it’s not so much the scanning of uploaded photos that has people upset, it’s the fact that the scanning and phoning home is baked into the device itself.
- Johnny555 5y agoDisable iCloud and there’s no scanning. Many people (like myself) are worried about the slippery slope where this is turned on for all photos, since why not? Not all abusers will upload their CSAM content to the cloud, why wouldn't Apple flip a flag in the future to scan everything, including photos and downloaded content? If they are serious about fighting CSAM and have this great privacy preserving platform, I don't see why they wouldn't do this?
- notJim 5y agoIt’s not a flag, the feature is part of the iCloud upload process. No upload, no scan. Of course a code change could do anything. The point of the feature is to prevent people from using iCloud to distribute CSAM. If you’re recording it with your phone, it’s no different than using an slr camera. The cloud part is what they’re worried about.
- yati 5y agoWhy flag the account and report it if the only goal is to politely prevent people from uploading? Like you say, a “code change can do anything” and we simply don’t know how the current feature is done or how it will evolve. edit: like many comments here already say, reporting doesn’t sound terrible for CSAM, but nothing about the feature guarantees it wont be extended to other kind of content.
- JohnFen 5y ago> The point of the feature is to prevent people from using iCloud to distribute CSAM. Right, which is why it's so utterly baffling that they don't do this scanning server-side instead of client-side.
- notJim 5y agoCompletely agree with this. But apples perspective is that on-device scanning prevents them from looking at your photos in the cloud at all. This is actually more secure than other cloud providers that do all kinds of shit with your photos.
- laurent92 5y agoBut if they find a few which have a high correlation, they will eagerly upload them to Apple’s police service and have them viewed by the entire floor. Also, the matches are supposedly only to actual babyporn pictures. We have 0% way to verify that, as even employees of NEMSEC are not all allowed to view them. Such DBs are often full of unreviewed fluff, and why not unrelated photos entirely, cookware, computer cases, who knows, as long as “some degree of matching” with your photos allows Apple to send a .zip to the police.
- JohnFen 5y ago> But apples perspective is that on-device scanning prevents them from looking at your photos in the cloud at all. In terms of the privacy intrusion, what difference does it make whether the images are scanned on your device or on their servers? They're getting scanned just the same either way. But if they did it on their servers, it would provide a technical impediment to expanding beyond the use of iCloud, and remove the need to trust Apple as much. That seems like it would be much better for users while still allowing the functionality they claim to be seeking.
- mixmastamyk 5y agoIf you run Little Snitch you'll find there is no such thing as "disabling" icloud. Mac OS still talks to it frequently, unless you run LS.
- vetinari 5y ago> That’s what Federighi says in this interview. It’s only scanning photos that are about to be uploaded to iCloud. Otherwise photos aren’t scanned. Disable iCloud and there’s no scanning. That's for now. The first update can change that and you will have no recourse.
- benhurmarcel 5y agoUpdates could always have changed that, on any closed-source system.
- strzibny 5y agoI think right now it only scans pictures destined to be sent to iCloud. The problem is you won't hear from them once they start scanning everything. Besides, it's just not really provable, right? You still have to take their word for it.
- notJim 5y agoHe said it in the interview and it was in the initial announcements. This is exactly the confusion he’s talking about.
- davidjytang 5y agoOnly if you use iCloud Photo I guess. And I don't think that would include photos saved in other apps.
- dehrmann 5y agoYou're also a toggle away from Apple scanning all your photos...if it isn't already enabled.
- zionic 5y agoDisabling iCloud does not remove the scanner from your device though, it is always there waiting for any other API to call it and begin scanning. Apple promising not to use the scanner is a weak promise they know they can’t keep (NSLs)