11 ms·

The secretive, semi-illicit world of WhatsApp mango importing

135 points by ryzvonusef 5y ago

ryzvonusef 5y ago
> Customs restrictions, high transport costs, and a short shelf life have made the world’s greatest mangoes — grown in Pakistan — difficult to come by in the U.S.
- ramraj07 5y ago
  “Worlds greatest mangoes” “Grown in Pakistan” [citation needed] I’ll argue South Indian grown mangoes are the tastiest (also I’m South Indian). Given the fruit likely originated there (along with its name).
  - jfk13 5y ago
    No doubt this is to some extent a question of personal taste. For me, although the Chaunsa mentioned in the article is among the best, nothing beats a beautifully ripe Sindhri mango. I lived in that region for a while, and the all-too-short Sindhri season was one of the highlights of the year.
  - ryzvonusef 5y ago
    Citation: Me, a paki who has lived abroad in different countries and tasted kenyan, thai, indian and paki mangoes ;p might be the patriot in me, or maybe i've had access to more mangoes (both in quantity and variety), but mangoes here just taste ....orgasmic and we don't even get the good stuff, that's exported
    - bobsil1 5y ago
      I went to a tasting at Reliance Jamnagar, where they planted mangos (for tax breaks?). Endless varieties plonked on your plate. A flight of mangos. Still an alphonso fan.
      - ryzvonusef 5y ago
        I think freshness plays a part, I ate the non-pak mangoes abroad, and they must have suffered in quality from the export process, while the mangoes I eat here were probably picked (relatively) close by and thus fresher
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Kesar mangos from India is my choice. And I have never had any mango grown in the Western Hemisphere anywhere near comparable to an Indian mango. The ones I had in Zimbabwe and Kenya were really good though.
  - gadders 5y ago
    I thought that claim might start a battle with South Asian neighbours :-)
- hulitu 5y ago
  I thought that the United Fruit Company has the "world greatest mangos". If you believe that fruits shipped half the globe are great, no comment.In europe fruits and vegetables from more than a couple of hundred kilometers are terrible. They are picked up green and get ripe in the supermarket.
  - krylon 5y ago
    So it's a lot like software development, then. (SCNR) But I agree, when I buy fruit, I usually have to let it sit for a while before it is good to eat.
  - ryzvonusef 5y ago
    export pre-processing of preishable fruits greatly affects quality IMHO; I know it's probably in my head, but I sometimes feel I can judge the lower quality in the Ethylene ripened products
  - petre 5y ago
    It depends. Cherry tomatoes from Italy or Morocco are okay.
  - notdang 5y ago
    That's not only in Europe. I live in Mexico, but in a huge city of millions of people. Guess what, most of the fruits and vegetables are terrible, even from the street markets. Turns out if it's a city of millions you need an industrial scale agriculture and logistics. So yes, the fruits/vegetables are picked green and are tasteless. To get something more tasteful I have to escape to a much smaller place.
newyankee 5y ago
The greatest mangoes come from Ratnagiri in India, something difficult to import to US as well
- spikengineer 5y ago
  Not a problem since the last two years - widely available but expensive. They are irradiated at BRIT, Navi Mumbai and shipped of directly to Atlanta. India now has many irradiation facilities and exports are picking up.
- KarlKemp 5y ago
  I tend to find it somewhat gauche to shill for your own country[0] in such an obvious way. It’s transparently obvious that it’s not objective, and all it does is leave an ugly impression of the speaker, the country, and, in this case, the mangos. The fact that it happens predominantly, almost to the exclusion of other nations, with India doesn't escape anyone's notice. Three times in this thread alone, by my count. 0: based on similar comments in the past
  - jeswin 5y ago
    Upvoting you, what you're saying is quite accurate and as an Indian, it's embarrassing for me. Part of the problem is that India doesn't have too many things to brag about - so we're super sensitive about culture, food, umm fruits etc. The right wing tends to be especially loud on these matters.
  - vrc 5y ago
    At the same time, mangoes in the US are not good. One out of many will have the right flavor. But in mango regions, you do have far more extreme and distinct textures and flavors. So it may not be shilling a country’s product — if you read most people are shilling their region’s mangoes that they grew up loving. This is far from shilling a country as I bet these shillers are claiming superiority over other Indian varieties as well.
  - eat_veggies 5y ago
    This is such a weird comment. India is well known for its mangos, and the article is about importing them from Pakistan and India because they're so good compared to mangos from the U.S. Why shouldn't Indians share their clearly relevant experiences and opinions here? And why are you bothering to keep count?
keyrat 5y ago
Seeing this on HN, the first thing I focus on is WhatsApp. But if you read the article, this is a story that could play out on many networks in 2021; it just so happens WhatsApp is the most popular. In my town, in the US, WhatsApp also plays a large role in civic life, commerce, rumors, etc., for better or for worse. It does feel like the medium is the message, but all the alternatives seek to more or less replicate the medium. There is something to be said about WhatsApp being so integral to this story, but if you read the article, that's not really the story. Anywho, we have pretty good mangoes here either way.
- dendriti 5y ago
  That's interesting. I was under the impression that Facebook filled the group chat niche in the US.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    If you had any international contacts, then WhatsApp was the no brainer when it came out because it was the best cross platform messaging solution at the time. The only people who did not use WhatsApp were people who did not have international contacts (or maybe used WeChat, but I am not familiar with those social circles).
  - atatatat 5y ago
    There's pockets of everything.
  - hollerith 5y ago
    Facebook owns WhatsApp now, so . . .
- nvusuvu 5y ago
  From the article, it mentioned that WhatsApp lets users make free international calls. Not sure if that distinguishes it above other comms channels.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
baybal2 5y ago
USA has a lot of non-tariff barriers, and they are applied very arbitrary. USA is very protective of its food market. Some times it looks very silly how one country is burdened to the neck with sanitary restrictions, while its neighbour not so far away can be having none of that.
- mschuster91 5y ago
  This is not something specific to the US per se, but a commonplace thing in pest control. For example, I'm German. Up to September 2020, we exported lots of pig parts across the world... then we got hit by a single case of an infected wild pig, and since then we can't export much outside the EU any more.
- op00to 5y ago
  It’s almost as if the risk of fruit pests is greater coming from a country that does not share a border (or hemisphere).
  - baybal2 5y ago
    Well, take for example how US treats Indonesia, and Malaysia. Sanitary restrictions are up there against one type of fruit pests, but Malaysia, being an ex-British colony, has it much easier.
  - cout 5y ago
    The Asian longhorn beetle is one such pest that is thought to have come to the US through shipping containers and is one of the reasons for strict shipping regulations. I knew nothing of it until the forestry service came knocking on my door informing me of an infestation near where I live and asking permission to test my trees. I like my habitat the way it is, and I'd like it to continue to be healthy.
    - jschwartzi 5y ago
      Yeah we have a similar problem where I live with giant hornets. They came here through shipping and now I suspect we’ll never be rid of them. Himalayan Blackberry also comes from a farmer importing plants to grow without considering that birds would distribute the seeds. It’s so pernicious here that you have to patrol your property for it and remove it monthly. New shoots can sickly take over an area. One shoot I saw had climbed 30 feet into the canopy of one of our red cedar trees. Agricultural exports are very dangerous if not handled carefully.
yitchelle 5y ago
Similar scenarios are being played out Durians as well in many countries, mainly due to its pungent smell. :-)
GordonS 5y ago
Heh, was a member of a similar group a couple of years back, but for curry leaves. There was some kind of blight going round in parts of India, and they were banned from import into the UK.
debarshri 5y ago
This reminds me of the Bangapalli mango dealer of den haag. I vividly remember that day. It was really dark night with full moon. He gave me a location which was near schildersbuurt which is a shady place in hague. In reached on time, but no one was there. But the moment he arrive at the spot, out of no where there were 50 people or so just came out to collect their mangoes. It was pretty cool experience. One of the thing, which was really nice about that guy was if mangoes would get spoil during the travel, he wouldn't charge you money. I remember someone told me once that importing alphonso mango was banned in netherlands because of invasive fruit flies that could come with it.
- owenversteeg 5y ago
  Wow, that's crazy, I think I tried to buy mangoes from the same exact guy in The Hague! It didn't work out the year I tried it for whatever reason unfortunately...
_hyn3 5y ago
"semi-illicit"? It's flat-out illegal, not semi-illicit. Inadvertently or not, illegal imports can bring in invasive species, like the Asian carp or even less interesting things like fruit molds that threaten native species and often spread like crazy. There's a reason why imports are regulated. And, it's potentially a felony under the Lacey Act. That's why it's secretive. This isn't sneaking out at night after your parents grounded you.. this potentially damages entire ecosystems.
- Pyramus 5y ago
  Did you actually read the article? Semi-Illicit here is meant as "feels illicit", not that they are. They are fully certified imports and a great part of the article describes the logistics.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - edko 5y ago
    I wonder if they are they paying the corresponding sales and income taxes.
phekunde 5y ago
Few years ago I tried to import Haapoos(English name, Alphonso) mangoes in the UK from India. I was informed by the authorities that bulk import is not allowed. A person can carry mangoes in luggage while entering the UK. But bulk importing was disallowed. That was a bummer, as these mangoes are very delicious and has some fantastic aroma.
- Scoundreller 5y ago
  What’s bulk VS personal? I can eat 3 a day and they ripen at different times so… that can be a lot. Canada has a bunch of rules for when food imports are no longer personal, but it’s clearly protectionism. I can go through hundreds of pounds of potatoes over a winter.
  - phekunde 5y ago
    For personal use means mangoes that can be carried by one person in a box, usually it is max 2 dozens. Bulk means importing multiple boxes for distribution to others.
mc32 5y ago
This reminds me of a couple of odd Mango stories. One, the gift of Mangoes by the Paki diplomats to chairman Mao[1] back in the '60s. It looked like the Chinese didn't fully understand the symbolism of the mango, but ran with it and turned around and made it into a worker's symbol) and the one about the Miyazaki mango[2] where some random guy offered the sapling of an expensive mango to an unsuspecting recipient who later learned it was a very valuable variety. [1]https://www.dawn.com/news/1457496 https://www.dawn.com/news/1457496 [2]https://www.vice.com/en/article/k783gy/worlds-most-expensive-mango-miyazaki-japan-india https://www.vice.com/en/article/k783gy/worlds-most-expensive...
- FlyingSnake 5y ago
  Paki is a ethnic slur (like N word) and should not be used in civil discussions.
  - mc32 5y ago
    It seems that may be the case sometimes, in some parts of the world, but not unless the speaker intends it to be -which I don't. I shall try to avoid it, out of caution. If the mod pleases, please use the correct demonym, I'm outside the edit window. People from Pakistan use this word themselves: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28167429 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28167429
intended 5y ago
The title of this article is going to create a (hopefully friendly) flame war. Also for the record, the best mangoes are categorically Alphonso. But it goes without saying - the varieties from mango season beat the supermarket fare by astronomic margins.
- debarshri 5y ago
  Alphonso is the best!
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - stronglikedan 5y ago
    I've never had an Alphonso, but my research indicates that it is very similar to my beloved Carrie, just from different regions. So can we agree to let them share the throne?
    - debarshri 5y ago
      I never had a carrie. But I just saw a youtube video. Looks quite similar. The best of the alphonso is ratnagiri hapus. It is much bigger than the regular alphonso, more juicy and sweet. It has more orange-ish hue in the flesh. [1] http://thewesternroutes.blogspot.com/2015/03/mango-picking-tasting-in-ratnagiri.html http://thewesternroutes.blogspot.com/2015/03/mango-picking-t...
- FlyingSnake 5y ago
  I think this might be a coping mechanism as PK thinks they’re the inheritors of Mughal empire. But Pakistanis claim falls flat as the best mangoes in the world naturally come from the area where Mangifera Indica is native to. Compared to the Langda, Haapus, Dashehri, Banganapalli, and countless other stellar varieties, PK has nothing to show.
  - ryzvonusef 5y ago
mint2 5y ago
This story makes me angry. Customs rules exist for a reason. Invasive species cause billions of dollars of damage annually and destroy ecosystems. Oh but you got to taste a rare mango so it’s okay!! Edit: another comment mentioned it’s all legal and the title is bad. But I made it half through the very long article and it mentions illegals instances and only rare legal instance so far although I was skimming. I am still mad.
- sciurus 5y ago
  I think the title is bad and you're missing details due to skimming. The author walks through the entire process the mangoes he is purchasing go through, including irradiation at a USDA-approved facility.
divs1210 5y ago
Just pointing it out in case people are unaware, but anyone involved in illicit trade with Pakistan is, as a side effect, funding terrorist groups like Taliban.
- reactspa 5y ago
  I'd be willing to bet that there's also tons of actual illegal stuff going to and fro in those mango boxes.
- weimerica 5y ago
  > but anyone involved in illicit trade with Pakistan is, as a side effect, funding terrorist groups like Taliban. I'm not particularly educated or opinionated on the topic. With that said, why is it not possible one is simply funding criminals with monetary intent in an operation like this - does the Taliban have a strangehold on criminality throughout Pakistan?
  - dotted_vulcan 5y ago
    In a similar way, any one engaged in illicit trade with India is funding terrorist groups like the RSS.
    - MichaelZuo 5y ago
      How does that work in the Indian diaspora abroad, when someone is discovered doing illicit trade?
      - malshe 5y ago
        I have not come across any so far.
    - malshe 5y ago
      This is some high class trolling on HN. Folks who are reading this comment, RSS is not a terrorist organization.
- 5y ago
edge17 5y ago
There is some subtlety that is being left out in the discussion here. Latin American and US producers have a huge incentive to keep others out, so even though it's legal to import in 2021 with the right inspections, importing still requires support from the USDA. You can see the countries that dominate imports here (screenshots because USDA site is slow): https://imgur.com/a/Xkum5Kh https://imgur.com/a/Xkum5Kh original USDA source: https://data.ers.usda.gov/reports.aspx?programArea=fruit&top=5&HardCopy=True&RowsPerPage=25&groupName=Noncitrus&commodityName=Mangoes&ID=17851 https://data.ers.usda.gov/reports.aspx?programArea=fruit&top... Worth noting, the National Mango Board, which operates under the USDA Agricultural Marketing Service oversight, lists it's roster here - https://www.mango.org/about-the-nmb/meet-the-nmb/meet-the-board-members/ https://www.mango.org/about-the-nmb/meet-the-nmb/meet-the-bo... Going down the list, the country/region affiliations of the board members are mostly obvious and leaning in favor of Latin America. These appointments are until 2023 and have no representation for the largest mango producers - India, China, Thailand, Indonesia, Pakistan, etc. - also the countries most people agree produce the best mangos in the world. Taken as a whole, my interpretation is there's a strong lobby by Latin American and US producers keeping the USDA from supporting mango imports from non Latin American countries. In the end, competition drives quality - and until the Latin American and US producers have a need to compete, we will keep getting lower quality and fibrous mangos in the US.
- whall6 5y ago
  I’ve never had a mango from Pakistan, but I lived in Cambodia for two years and the mangoes there entirely eclipse the mangoes sold in the states. It’s just a different level. I’m sure if someone is willing to go through that much effort to get some mangoes from Pakistan, they must be good. I’ll have to try some one day.
  - JamesSwift 5y ago
    I just moved to a house in Florida that has mango trees. At least 2 varieties in fact. The 2 taste and feel so entirely different they could almost be different fruit. Point being I'm not sure there is a way to cast a general attitude for mangos, let alone from a certain region. Its almost certainly the specific cultivars rather than the region that you don't care for.
draklor40 5y ago
Salem gundu and banganapalli FTW !
pierrebai 5y ago
People are discussing in hushed tones of mangoes at parties? The world sure has changed. Yes, this is a comment about what I call the New-Yorker tired long-form style of writing. Hype, hyperbole, weird mix of personal anecdotes, facts and always with a heavy syrup of cold-war-era like of under-cover midnight-meeting, world-weary, globe-trotting investigation.
- IfOnlyYouKnew 5y ago
  The main appeal of the article is that it uses the language you criticize, but applies it to a whimsical subject. It’s somewhat humorous and self-deprecating. Your comment is similarly rich in adjectives, but lacking in all other regards.
  - dotcommand 5y ago
    Are you paid to defend articles/journalists here from criticism all day? This is the second time you've attacked a HN member for legitimately criticizing an article. People are entitled to their opinions. Why are you attacking them for it?
    - IfOnlyYouKnew 5y ago
      Yes. A lot.
barathr 5y ago
What's also not well known is that the 2006 U.S.-India nuclear deal is what opened the door to Indian mango imports: https://georgetownvoice.com/2006/03/16/more-nukes-for-indian-mangoes/ https://georgetownvoice.com/2006/03/16/more-nukes-for-indian...
owenversteeg 5y ago
Oh my god, I got into one of these mango buying groups once! I had no idea it was a worldwide phenomenon. The little group I found was in the Netherlands and, of course, conducted in a pretty shady way over Whatsapp. At some point someone was even going to charter a plane for the mangoes, but then something happened and it all fell apart at the last minute :( [edit] apparently someone else in this thread has bought from the same sketchy Dutch mango dealer, this is hilarious.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
rramadass 5y ago
Mangoes are the King of fruits. The best are from India and a close second are those from Thailand. When i lived in the US it was a shock to me that i could not find any good Mangoes at all. The ones imported from Latin America tasted like mud and were only used for Salsas. I could not convince my American friends that they had never tasted true Mangoes since they had had no exposure to the real thing. That any civilized being in this age of globalization could be unaware of how Mangoes really tasted blew my mind. The Agriculture Mafia in the Western countries are really denying their brethren some of nature's best bounties.
N1H1L 5y ago
Ohh man, how I miss the mangoes of my homeland. Nothing beats the taste of a cold Himsagar on a hot summer day.

135 points by ryzvonusef 5y ago

> Customs restrictions, high transport costs, and a short shelf life have made the world’s greatest mangoes — grown in Pakistan — difficult to come by in the U.S.

ramraj07 5y ago
“Worlds greatest mangoes” “Grown in Pakistan” [citation needed] I’ll argue South Indian grown mangoes are the tastiest (also I’m South Indian). Given the fruit likely originated there (along with its name).
- jfk13 5y ago
  No doubt this is to some extent a question of personal taste. For me, although the Chaunsa mentioned in the article is among the best, nothing beats a beautifully ripe Sindhri mango. I lived in that region for a while, and the all-too-short Sindhri season was one of the highlights of the year.
- ryzvonusef 5y ago
  Citation: Me, a paki who has lived abroad in different countries and tasted kenyan, thai, indian and paki mangoes ;p might be the patriot in me, or maybe i've had access to more mangoes (both in quantity and variety), but mangoes here just taste ....orgasmic and we don't even get the good stuff, that's exported
  - bobsil1 5y ago
    I went to a tasting at Reliance Jamnagar, where they planted mangos (for tax breaks?). Endless varieties plonked on your plate. A flight of mangos. Still an alphonso fan.
    - ryzvonusef 5y ago
      I think freshness plays a part, I ate the non-pak mangoes abroad, and they must have suffered in quality from the export process, while the mangoes I eat here were probably picked (relatively) close by and thus fresher
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      Kesar mangos from India is my choice. And I have never had any mango grown in the Western Hemisphere anywhere near comparable to an Indian mango. The ones I had in Zimbabwe and Kenya were really good though.
- gadders 5y ago
  I thought that claim might start a battle with South Asian neighbours :-)
hulitu 5y ago
I thought that the United Fruit Company has the "world greatest mangos". If you believe that fruits shipped half the globe are great, no comment.In europe fruits and vegetables from more than a couple of hundred kilometers are terrible. They are picked up green and get ripe in the supermarket.
- krylon 5y ago
  So it's a lot like software development, then. (SCNR) But I agree, when I buy fruit, I usually have to let it sit for a while before it is good to eat.
- ryzvonusef 5y ago
  export pre-processing of preishable fruits greatly affects quality IMHO; I know it's probably in my head, but I sometimes feel I can judge the lower quality in the Ethylene ripened products
- petre 5y ago
  It depends. Cherry tomatoes from Italy or Morocco are okay.
- notdang 5y ago
  That's not only in Europe. I live in Mexico, but in a huge city of millions of people. Guess what, most of the fruits and vegetables are terrible, even from the street markets. Turns out if it's a city of millions you need an industrial scale agriculture and logistics. So yes, the fruits/vegetables are picked green and are tasteless. To get something more tasteful I have to escape to a much smaller place.

newyankee 5y ago

The greatest mangoes come from Ratnagiri in India, something difficult to import to US as well

spikengineer 5y ago
Not a problem since the last two years - widely available but expensive. They are irradiated at BRIT, Navi Mumbai and shipped of directly to Atlanta. India now has many irradiation facilities and exports are picking up.
KarlKemp 5y ago
I tend to find it somewhat gauche to shill for your own country[0] in such an obvious way. It’s transparently obvious that it’s not objective, and all it does is leave an ugly impression of the speaker, the country, and, in this case, the mangos. The fact that it happens predominantly, almost to the exclusion of other nations, with India doesn't escape anyone's notice. Three times in this thread alone, by my count. 0: based on similar comments in the past
- jeswin 5y ago
  Upvoting you, what you're saying is quite accurate and as an Indian, it's embarrassing for me. Part of the problem is that India doesn't have too many things to brag about - so we're super sensitive about culture, food, umm fruits etc. The right wing tends to be especially loud on these matters.
- vrc 5y ago
  At the same time, mangoes in the US are not good. One out of many will have the right flavor. But in mango regions, you do have far more extreme and distinct textures and flavors. So it may not be shilling a country’s product — if you read most people are shilling their region’s mangoes that they grew up loving. This is far from shilling a country as I bet these shillers are claiming superiority over other Indian varieties as well.
- eat_veggies 5y ago
  This is such a weird comment. India is well known for its mangos, and the article is about importing them from Pakistan and India because they're so good compared to mangos from the U.S. Why shouldn't Indians share their clearly relevant experiences and opinions here? And why are you bothering to keep count?

keyrat 5y ago

Seeing this on HN, the first thing I focus on is WhatsApp. But if you read the article, this is a story that could play out on many networks in 2021; it just so happens WhatsApp is the most popular. In my town, in the US, WhatsApp also plays a large role in civic life, commerce, rumors, etc., for better or for worse. It does feel like the medium is the message, but all the alternatives seek to more or less replicate the medium. There is something to be said about WhatsApp being so integral to this story, but if you read the article, that's not really the story. Anywho, we have pretty good mangoes here either way.

dendriti 5y ago
That's interesting. I was under the impression that Facebook filled the group chat niche in the US.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  If you had any international contacts, then WhatsApp was the no brainer when it came out because it was the best cross platform messaging solution at the time. The only people who did not use WhatsApp were people who did not have international contacts (or maybe used WeChat, but I am not familiar with those social circles).
- atatatat 5y ago
  There's pockets of everything.
- hollerith 5y ago
  Facebook owns WhatsApp now, so . . .
nvusuvu 5y ago
From the article, it mentioned that WhatsApp lets users make free international calls. Not sure if that distinguishes it above other comms channels.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago

baybal2 5y ago

USA has a lot of non-tariff barriers, and they are applied very arbitrary. USA is very protective of its food market. Some times it looks very silly how one country is burdened to the neck with sanitary restrictions, while its neighbour not so far away can be having none of that.

mschuster91 5y ago
This is not something specific to the US per se, but a commonplace thing in pest control. For example, I'm German. Up to September 2020, we exported lots of pig parts across the world... then we got hit by a single case of an infected wild pig, and since then we can't export much outside the EU any more.
op00to 5y ago
It’s almost as if the risk of fruit pests is greater coming from a country that does not share a border (or hemisphere).
- baybal2 5y ago
  Well, take for example how US treats Indonesia, and Malaysia. Sanitary restrictions are up there against one type of fruit pests, but Malaysia, being an ex-British colony, has it much easier.
- cout 5y ago
  The Asian longhorn beetle is one such pest that is thought to have come to the US through shipping containers and is one of the reasons for strict shipping regulations. I knew nothing of it until the forestry service came knocking on my door informing me of an infestation near where I live and asking permission to test my trees. I like my habitat the way it is, and I'd like it to continue to be healthy.
  - jschwartzi 5y ago
    Yeah we have a similar problem where I live with giant hornets. They came here through shipping and now I suspect we’ll never be rid of them. Himalayan Blackberry also comes from a farmer importing plants to grow without considering that birds would distribute the seeds. It’s so pernicious here that you have to patrol your property for it and remove it monthly. New shoots can sickly take over an area. One shoot I saw had climbed 30 feet into the canopy of one of our red cedar trees. Agricultural exports are very dangerous if not handled carefully.

yitchelle 5y ago

Similar scenarios are being played out Durians as well in many countries, mainly due to its pungent smell. :-)

GordonS 5y ago

Heh, was a member of a similar group a couple of years back, but for curry leaves. There was some kind of blight going round in parts of India, and they were banned from import into the UK.

debarshri 5y ago

This reminds me of the Bangapalli mango dealer of den haag. I vividly remember that day. It was really dark night with full moon. He gave me a location which was near schildersbuurt which is a shady place in hague. In reached on time, but no one was there. But the moment he arrive at the spot, out of no where there were 50 people or so just came out to collect their mangoes. It was pretty cool experience. One of the thing, which was really nice about that guy was if mangoes would get spoil during the travel, he wouldn't charge you money. I remember someone told me once that importing alphonso mango was banned in netherlands because of invasive fruit flies that could come with it.

owenversteeg 5y ago
Wow, that's crazy, I think I tried to buy mangoes from the same exact guy in The Hague! It didn't work out the year I tried it for whatever reason unfortunately...

_hyn3 5y ago

"semi-illicit"? It's flat-out illegal, not semi-illicit. Inadvertently or not, illegal imports can bring in invasive species, like the Asian carp or even less interesting things like fruit molds that threaten native species and often spread like crazy. There's a reason why imports are regulated. And, it's potentially a felony under the Lacey Act. That's why it's secretive. This isn't sneaking out at night after your parents grounded you.. this potentially damages entire ecosystems.

Pyramus 5y ago
Did you actually read the article? Semi-Illicit here is meant as "feels illicit", not that they are. They are fully certified imports and a great part of the article describes the logistics.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- edko 5y ago
  I wonder if they are they paying the corresponding sales and income taxes.

phekunde 5y ago

Few years ago I tried to import Haapoos(English name, Alphonso) mangoes in the UK from India. I was informed by the authorities that bulk import is not allowed. A person can carry mangoes in luggage while entering the UK. But bulk importing was disallowed. That was a bummer, as these mangoes are very delicious and has some fantastic aroma.

Scoundreller 5y ago
What’s bulk VS personal? I can eat 3 a day and they ripen at different times so… that can be a lot. Canada has a bunch of rules for when food imports are no longer personal, but it’s clearly protectionism. I can go through hundreds of pounds of potatoes over a winter.
- phekunde 5y ago
  For personal use means mangoes that can be carried by one person in a box, usually it is max 2 dozens. Bulk means importing multiple boxes for distribution to others.

mc32 5y ago

This reminds me of a couple of odd Mango stories. One, the gift of Mangoes by the Paki diplomats to chairman Mao[1] back in the '60s. It looked like the Chinese didn't fully understand the symbolism of the mango, but ran with it and turned around and made it into a worker's symbol) and the one about the Miyazaki mango[2] where some random guy offered the sapling of an expensive mango to an unsuspecting recipient who later learned it was a very valuable variety. [1]https://www.dawn.com/news/1457496 https://www.dawn.com/news/1457496 [2]https://www.vice.com/en/article/k783gy/worlds-most-expensive-mango-miyazaki-japan-india https://www.vice.com/en/article/k783gy/worlds-most-expensive...

FlyingSnake 5y ago
Paki is a ethnic slur (like N word) and should not be used in civil discussions.
- mc32 5y ago
  It seems that may be the case sometimes, in some parts of the world, but not unless the speaker intends it to be -which I don't. I shall try to avoid it, out of caution. If the mod pleases, please use the correct demonym, I'm outside the edit window. People from Pakistan use this word themselves: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28167429 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28167429

intended 5y ago

The title of this article is going to create a (hopefully friendly) flame war. Also for the record, the best mangoes are categorically Alphonso. But it goes without saying - the varieties from mango season beat the supermarket fare by astronomic margins.

debarshri 5y ago
Alphonso is the best!
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- stronglikedan 5y ago
  I've never had an Alphonso, but my research indicates that it is very similar to my beloved Carrie, just from different regions. So can we agree to let them share the throne?
  - debarshri 5y ago
    I never had a carrie. But I just saw a youtube video. Looks quite similar. The best of the alphonso is ratnagiri hapus. It is much bigger than the regular alphonso, more juicy and sweet. It has more orange-ish hue in the flesh. [1] http://thewesternroutes.blogspot.com/2015/03/mango-picking-tasting-in-ratnagiri.html http://thewesternroutes.blogspot.com/2015/03/mango-picking-t...
FlyingSnake 5y ago
I think this might be a coping mechanism as PK thinks they’re the inheritors of Mughal empire. But Pakistanis claim falls flat as the best mangoes in the world naturally come from the area where Mangifera Indica is native to. Compared to the Langda, Haapus, Dashehri, Banganapalli, and countless other stellar varieties, PK has nothing to show.
- ryzvonusef 5y ago

mint2 5y ago

This story makes me angry. Customs rules exist for a reason. Invasive species cause billions of dollars of damage annually and destroy ecosystems. Oh but you got to taste a rare mango so it’s okay!! Edit: another comment mentioned it’s all legal and the title is bad. But I made it half through the very long article and it mentions illegals instances and only rare legal instance so far although I was skimming. I am still mad.

sciurus 5y ago
I think the title is bad and you're missing details due to skimming. The author walks through the entire process the mangoes he is purchasing go through, including irradiation at a USDA-approved facility.

divs1210 5y ago

Just pointing it out in case people are unaware, but anyone involved in illicit trade with Pakistan is, as a side effect, funding terrorist groups like Taliban.

reactspa 5y ago
I'd be willing to bet that there's also tons of actual illegal stuff going to and fro in those mango boxes.
weimerica 5y ago
> but anyone involved in illicit trade with Pakistan is, as a side effect, funding terrorist groups like Taliban. I'm not particularly educated or opinionated on the topic. With that said, why is it not possible one is simply funding criminals with monetary intent in an operation like this - does the Taliban have a strangehold on criminality throughout Pakistan?
- dotted_vulcan 5y ago
  In a similar way, any one engaged in illicit trade with India is funding terrorist groups like the RSS.
  - MichaelZuo 5y ago
    How does that work in the Indian diaspora abroad, when someone is discovered doing illicit trade?
    - malshe 5y ago
      I have not come across any so far.
  - malshe 5y ago
    This is some high class trolling on HN. Folks who are reading this comment, RSS is not a terrorist organization.
5y ago

edge17 5y ago

There is some subtlety that is being left out in the discussion here. Latin American and US producers have a huge incentive to keep others out, so even though it's legal to import in 2021 with the right inspections, importing still requires support from the USDA. You can see the countries that dominate imports here (screenshots because USDA site is slow): https://imgur.com/a/Xkum5Kh https://imgur.com/a/Xkum5Kh original USDA source: https://data.ers.usda.gov/reports.aspx?programArea=fruit&top=5&HardCopy=True&RowsPerPage=25&groupName=Noncitrus&commodityName=Mangoes&ID=17851 https://data.ers.usda.gov/reports.aspx?programArea=fruit&top... Worth noting, the National Mango Board, which operates under the USDA Agricultural Marketing Service oversight, lists it's roster here - https://www.mango.org/about-the-nmb/meet-the-nmb/meet-the-board-members/ https://www.mango.org/about-the-nmb/meet-the-nmb/meet-the-bo... Going down the list, the country/region affiliations of the board members are mostly obvious and leaning in favor of Latin America. These appointments are until 2023 and have no representation for the largest mango producers - India, China, Thailand, Indonesia, Pakistan, etc. - also the countries most people agree produce the best mangos in the world. Taken as a whole, my interpretation is there's a strong lobby by Latin American and US producers keeping the USDA from supporting mango imports from non Latin American countries. In the end, competition drives quality - and until the Latin American and US producers have a need to compete, we will keep getting lower quality and fibrous mangos in the US.

whall6 5y ago
I’ve never had a mango from Pakistan, but I lived in Cambodia for two years and the mangoes there entirely eclipse the mangoes sold in the states. It’s just a different level. I’m sure if someone is willing to go through that much effort to get some mangoes from Pakistan, they must be good. I’ll have to try some one day.
- JamesSwift 5y ago
  I just moved to a house in Florida that has mango trees. At least 2 varieties in fact. The 2 taste and feel so entirely different they could almost be different fruit. Point being I'm not sure there is a way to cast a general attitude for mangos, let alone from a certain region. Its almost certainly the specific cultivars rather than the region that you don't care for.

draklor40 5y ago

Salem gundu and banganapalli FTW !

pierrebai 5y ago

People are discussing in hushed tones of mangoes at parties? The world sure has changed. Yes, this is a comment about what I call the New-Yorker tired long-form style of writing. Hype, hyperbole, weird mix of personal anecdotes, facts and always with a heavy syrup of cold-war-era like of under-cover midnight-meeting, world-weary, globe-trotting investigation.

IfOnlyYouKnew 5y ago
The main appeal of the article is that it uses the language you criticize, but applies it to a whimsical subject. It’s somewhat humorous and self-deprecating. Your comment is similarly rich in adjectives, but lacking in all other regards.
- dotcommand 5y ago
  Are you paid to defend articles/journalists here from criticism all day? This is the second time you've attacked a HN member for legitimately criticizing an article. People are entitled to their opinions. Why are you attacking them for it?
  - IfOnlyYouKnew 5y ago
    Yes. A lot.

barathr 5y ago

What's also not well known is that the 2006 U.S.-India nuclear deal is what opened the door to Indian mango imports: https://georgetownvoice.com/2006/03/16/more-nukes-for-indian-mangoes/ https://georgetownvoice.com/2006/03/16/more-nukes-for-indian...

owenversteeg 5y ago

Oh my god, I got into one of these mango buying groups once! I had no idea it was a worldwide phenomenon. The little group I found was in the Netherlands and, of course, conducted in a pretty shady way over Whatsapp. At some point someone was even going to charter a plane for the mangoes, but then something happened and it all fell apart at the last minute :( [edit] apparently someone else in this thread has bought from the same sketchy Dutch mango dealer, this is hilarious.

deleted 5y ago

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rramadass 5y ago

Mangoes are the King of fruits. The best are from India and a close second are those from Thailand. When i lived in the US it was a shock to me that i could not find any good Mangoes at all. The ones imported from Latin America tasted like mud and were only used for Salsas. I could not convince my American friends that they had never tasted true Mangoes since they had had no exposure to the real thing. That any civilized being in this age of globalization could be unaware of how Mangoes really tasted blew my mind. The Agriculture Mafia in the Western countries are really denying their brethren some of nature's best bounties.

N1H1L 5y ago

Ohh man, how I miss the mangoes of my homeland. Nothing beats the taste of a cold Himsagar on a hot summer day.