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Apple's new system is scanning personal property that doesn't belong to them and isn't yet in their cloud. Gmail files that get scanned are contained on Google

Apple's new system is scanning personal property that doesn't belong to them and isn't yet in their cloud. Gmail files that get scanned are contained on Google's property, in their cloud, on their machines. Entirely different context. It's the difference between the USPS coming into my home without permission and going through my documents, records, mail - versus if I send mail through their system and they track it, scan the envelope, etc. The iPhone used to be pretty obviously personal property, now Apple is saying that's clearly no longer going to be the case going forward.

GeekyBear 5y ago
> Apple's new system is scanning personal property that doesn't belong to them and isn't yet in their cloud. Apple's new system only scans photos you attempt to upload to their cloud. Nothing else is scanned. Scanning the files on server, the way Google and Microsoft do it, means that false positive data is lying around where it can be subpoenaed and used to incriminate innocent people. >Innocent man, 23, sues Arizona police for $1.5million after being arrested for murder and jailed for six days when Google's GPS tracker wrongly placed him at the scene of the 2018 crime https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7897319/Police-arrested-innocent-man-murder-using-Google-location-data.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7897319/Police-arre...
- _-david-_ 5y ago
  >Apple's new system only scans photos you attempt to upload to their cloud. And what if in the future they decide they need to scan more than images going to the cloud? What if there is some huge epidemic of child abuse or some other terrible thing and Apple decides they need to do more? Once you open Pandora's Box you can't close it.
  - GeekyBear 5y ago
    What if in the future Google starts selling your location data to anyone willing to write them a check? Once you open the Pandora's Box of collecting location data, you can't close it.
    - grupthink 5y ago
      Both will happen. Basically, Apple is able to scan data on your phone, and Google is able to scan data on their servers.
- arvinsim 5y ago
  It doesn't matter if the scan is conditional. It matters that the capability is there.
  - nicce 5y ago
    Capability has always been there. It is only worded now in a way which made it the most people understand. Speculation about "doing something in hidden", is as valid as before. In reality, we can be only be mad when they they are publicly making things worse in black box systems. Not about something, which is "policy change" away. Let's be mad when they actually change that policy.
- strofcon 5y ago
  Your whatboutism is profoundly unhelpful here. Yes, other companies are doing bad things, and they should be stopped. Doesn't by any stretch of the imagination mean that Apple should be allowed to do something even worse.
  - GeekyBear 5y ago
    Other companies aren't "doing bad things" they are handling scanning the contents of their cloud services in a much more user hostile way. Keeping that data on their server means it can be subpoenaed and misused.
    - strofcon 5y ago
      I mean, we can split hairs over the words to use, but ultimately "immoral and unethical things are being done by big companies that hold all your stuff". The sentiment is the same. What I'm getting at is that the things Google and Microsoft are doing are entirely irrelevant to the conversation at hand. Apple is going to compromise your device's privacy in the name of child safety, and will - invariably - eventually cave to pressure to extend that capability well beyond it's originally well-meaning use case. Stop bringing up what other companies are doing - it is, as I said, entirely irrelevant.
      - GeekyBear 5y ago
        > What I'm getting at is that the things Google and Microsoft are doing are entirely irrelevant to the conversation at hand. It is not. Industry practices are entirely relevant.
        crusty 5y ago
        So what is your point then? Is it that Apple's punch in the gut here, while bad/wrong, is beyond criticism or outage because if you use Google, you'll get a slap to the face? Or is it that Apple actually isn't doing anything wrong simply because there is some roughly analogous behavior in your view by other companies?
crusty 5y ago
Oh, I like this USPS analogy but I'll clean it up. Google photos and chat are like a USPS that only stores and transmits post cards. It's understood by the creator/sender that anyone who has access to them can read them. Apple here is a USPS that sends sealed envelopes. They (say they) can't read what's inside as it's sent or stored. With this change they will create the 'capability' to show up whenever you decide to send an envelope and read it before you seal it up for sending. Meh, nevermind. That's not much cleaner.

GeekyBear 5y ago

> Apple's new system is scanning personal property that doesn't belong to them and isn't yet in their cloud. Apple's new system only scans photos you attempt to upload to their cloud. Nothing else is scanned. Scanning the files on server, the way Google and Microsoft do it, means that false positive data is lying around where it can be subpoenaed and used to incriminate innocent people. >Innocent man, 23, sues Arizona police for $1.5million after being arrested for murder and jailed for six days when Google's GPS tracker wrongly placed him at the scene of the 2018 crime https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7897319/Police-arrested-innocent-man-murder-using-Google-location-data.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7897319/Police-arre...

_-david-_ 5y ago
>Apple's new system only scans photos you attempt to upload to their cloud. And what if in the future they decide they need to scan more than images going to the cloud? What if there is some huge epidemic of child abuse or some other terrible thing and Apple decides they need to do more? Once you open Pandora's Box you can't close it.
- GeekyBear 5y ago
  What if in the future Google starts selling your location data to anyone willing to write them a check? Once you open the Pandora's Box of collecting location data, you can't close it.
  - grupthink 5y ago
    Both will happen. Basically, Apple is able to scan data on your phone, and Google is able to scan data on their servers.
arvinsim 5y ago
It doesn't matter if the scan is conditional. It matters that the capability is there.
- nicce 5y ago
  Capability has always been there. It is only worded now in a way which made it the most people understand. Speculation about "doing something in hidden", is as valid as before. In reality, we can be only be mad when they they are publicly making things worse in black box systems. Not about something, which is "policy change" away. Let's be mad when they actually change that policy.
strofcon 5y ago
Your whatboutism is profoundly unhelpful here. Yes, other companies are doing bad things, and they should be stopped. Doesn't by any stretch of the imagination mean that Apple should be allowed to do something even worse.
- GeekyBear 5y ago
  Other companies aren't "doing bad things" they are handling scanning the contents of their cloud services in a much more user hostile way. Keeping that data on their server means it can be subpoenaed and misused.
  - strofcon 5y ago
    I mean, we can split hairs over the words to use, but ultimately "immoral and unethical things are being done by big companies that hold all your stuff". The sentiment is the same. What I'm getting at is that the things Google and Microsoft are doing are entirely irrelevant to the conversation at hand. Apple is going to compromise your device's privacy in the name of child safety, and will - invariably - eventually cave to pressure to extend that capability well beyond it's originally well-meaning use case. Stop bringing up what other companies are doing - it is, as I said, entirely irrelevant.
    - GeekyBear 5y ago
      > What I'm getting at is that the things Google and Microsoft are doing are entirely irrelevant to the conversation at hand. It is not. Industry practices are entirely relevant.
      - crusty 5y ago
        So what is your point then? Is it that Apple's punch in the gut here, while bad/wrong, is beyond criticism or outage because if you use Google, you'll get a slap to the face? Or is it that Apple actually isn't doing anything wrong simply because there is some roughly analogous behavior in your view by other companies?

crusty 5y ago

Oh, I like this USPS analogy but I'll clean it up. Google photos and chat are like a USPS that only stores and transmits post cards. It's understood by the creator/sender that anyone who has access to them can read them. Apple here is a USPS that sends sealed envelopes. They (say they) can't read what's inside as it's sent or stored. With this change they will create the 'capability' to show up whenever you decide to send an envelope and read it before you seal it up for sending. Meh, nevermind. That's not much cleaner.