7 ms·

‘A Form of Brainwashing’: China Remakes Hong Kong

99 points by v77 5y ago

vco3340 5y ago
I realize this isn't a high value comment, but I lived in Hong Kong for a couple years during the handover. The socio-political turmoil over the past few years has been painful to observe.
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  I used to go there for business. It is a city with rare combination of the eastern and the western values. Hong Kong culture affected me in ways I cannot describe in words. I took photographs on film that I sometimes browse to remind me of those days. I highly recommend Greg Girards albums (esp the ones from Kowloon days): https://www.instagram.com/gregforaday/ https://www.instagram.com/gregforaday/
  - danrocks 5y ago
    All that is being washed away. I foresee Hong Kong will be a regular mainland, primarily Mandarin-speaking city within a couple of decades.
- culturestate 5y ago
  I lived in HK for the better part of a decade (I still do, technically, despite COVID fencing me outside of HK and inside Singapore) and it's hard to articulate just how distressing it is to watch a place that you dearly love literally disappear before your eyes. I have permanent residency and had planned to make HK my long-term home; those plans have evaporated. My friends who've been there even longer than me - many of them from the colonial days - are in the same boat, trying to work out how to sell property they thought they'd always hold and decide where to set up what are effectively completely new lives. At the same time, I feel like this sense of melancholy is almost fraudulent, because I have an option, unlike a lot of the people I know. I can just leave; that avenue isn't available to the lady who's sold flowers on the corner outside my flat for longer than I've been there, or to my local friends whose families didn't take part in the pre-1997 passport arbitrage or who were born too late to get a BNO. Their entire way of life is fundamentally changing in a way they have no control over, and it's heartbreaking.
- refurb 5y ago
  Underrated comment. It’s interesting to live long enough to see a (relatively) free and open society like Hong Kong get consumed by an authoritarian country that is growing more bold every year.
serialrapist 5y ago
Who gives a fucking shit. They call themselves "Hong Kongers", they can get fucked. What a stupid fucking name for residents of a country. Complete and utter nonsense. BTW, Hong Kong was historically part of China. The only reason we're having this discussion is because they got colonized by the British. Why should I care what happens to a colony that is supposed to be 100% returned to its original country in the next 30 years? Why should I care if they accelerate the process?
throwawaysea 5y ago
This is exactly the same playbook China used to Han-ify (Sinicize) Tibet and Xinjiang. I feel very sad that the people of all these areas are powerless to stop their culture, way of life, and right to self-determination disappear. To a lesser extent, I also see elements of the same - attempts to to police culture, thought, speech, and dissent - appearing elsewhere in the world. While the approaches may be softer and more decentralized (like deplatforming), they are nevertheless problematic. I also see increasing parallels to the loyalty pledges mentioned in the article - for example diversity pledges or corporate trainings that force people to admit their racial guilt, like a struggle session from Mao's cultural revolution (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session) but without the physical violence. We need to value individual freedoms and protect them at every turn to retain free societies. As for China, protecting and returning self-governance to Hong Kong, Xinjiang, Tibet, and Taiwan is an important human rights battle that the rest of the world needs to more actively engage on. Right now, it seems like everyone is on the sidelines letting all of it happen.
- Xi_Jinping 5y ago
  Anyone who values diversity or civil rights has to acknowledge that the Chinese Communist Party is the largest scale force seeking to destroy diversity and civil rights. Conquered people with culture different than the majority Han culture like the millions of Tibetans, Mongolians, and Uyghurs are often punished for practicing their culture or speaking their language. Uyghur families are forcibly separated, Uyghur adults are forced to labor in sweatshops far from home for little pay, and Uyghur women are forced to get abortions. These people used to learn their cultures and languages in local schools, but now are forced to learn Han culture and speak the language of the Han majority, Mandarin. If you are serious about civil rights and diversity, then you have to be fundamentally opposed to the Chinese Communist Party and their policy of violent forced assimilation of their minorities.
missedthecue 5y ago
China's ability to completely control the domestic narrative is really really underappreciated in my point of view. Not that it is positive from a personal liberties standpoint, but in that sense that it is an incredible strategic asset. Imagine if the second world war had been fought today in the era of entertainment journalism, twitter reactionism, and professional punditry. It would be laughable. The war effort would stall before it began. My grandfather talks to me about how he would enthusiastically walk the streets with his friends after school looking for chewing gum and cigarette wrappers in order to pull the aluminum foil out of the discarded packaging and send the resulting accumulated metal scraps to recycling centers to be made into fighter planes. Things like that would never happen today. 25% the country would insist that Hitler doesn't actually exist, 25% would say the Axis powers are actually doing the right thing and that Pearl Harbor was deserved, 25% would maintain that all calls for intervention are propaganda from the military industrial complex looking to line their pockets at the expense of the public purse, and the remaining 25% would be branded war-mongerers by everyone else. China does not have that problem. Whatever the government in Beijing wants, ~1.4 billion humans also genuinely want.
- danrocks 5y ago
  Good comment. Additionally, we can't forget the fact that, for all their external policy blunders (which are many), the Chinese leadership is extremely skilled in manipulating domestic public opinion. They have mastered the weaponization of online mobs and are using them to foster a nasty brand of ethno-nationalism that can force even the biggest corporations and foreign celebrities to bend to their will.
- axguscbklp 5y ago
  US citizens' desire to fight in WW2 perhaps largely came from propaganda to begin with - maybe in the absence of propaganda most of them would have been fine with doing nothing to help Britain, France, etc. About 60% of US WW2 soldiers were drafted, not volunteers. So it is not so much a question of no propaganda in the past versus propaganda today, it is more of a question of more tightly controlled propaganda in the past versus more diverse propaganda today.
cletus 5y ago
So here's a fun fact about the "security" laws China forced down Hong Kong's gullet recently: they apply to everyone on the planet. They're vague and "subversion" pretty much includes anything you want to include. It's anything that makes the Chinese government or Chinese officials look bad, basically. So, if you're not even a citizen of China and you're sitting in Europe or the USA and you make some critical post about China to such a degree that the Chinese government deems it "subversive" and you then make the mistake of transiting the Hong Kong airport, you can be arrested and sent to the Chinese mainland for trial. Interestingly, Qatar has a similar law but it's more limited in scope at least. If however you have a job in Qatar, I'd highly suggest you don't say anything negative about Qatar or the royal family, even on a Facebook post while in a completely different country. People can and have been arrested for this. Also, Qatar is one of the few countries that require an exit visa to leave the country so think twice about working there regardless of that. But I digress. I think it's fair to say that any notion of Hong Kong independence or sovereignty is a thinly-veiled illusion at this point.
- danrocks 5y ago
  This is correct. If you live in America and you say something that suggests Hong Kong should be independent or that the CPG shouldn't have authority here, you can get arrested when transiting via Hong Kong.
- Cyph0n 5y ago
  It’s not just Qatar. All of the Gulf monarchies operate in a similar fashion, with the possible exception being Kuwait (closer to a constitutional monarchy than the rest).
- guardiangod 5y ago
  1. The 'princess' of Huawei, Meng Wanzhou, was transferring flight in Canada when she was arrested on behalf of US. 2. China realizes this is a serious advantage and want to arrest foreign dissidents when they transfer flights in China. But no one transfers flight in any Chinese territories except in...Hong Kong, with its international airport. 3. China pressured the HK government to pass a security law that allows HK government to arrest anyone on behalf of PRC for extradition purposes, even for transferring flights. 4. The HK civilians revolted against the law for obvious reasons. 5. PRC flipped the table, suppressed HK, declared the Sino-British Joint Declaration to be invalid, and changed all the HK government's security officials to ones from the mainland. Oh, and the brainwashing starts. Meanwhile, Meng Wanzhou is relaxing in her multimillion dollar mansion in Vancouver arguing Huawei has no ties to the PRC. roll eyes
danrocks 5y ago
I live in Hong Kong. Arrived here right when the second wave of protests started, in 2018. The speed with which China is changing the face of the city since then has been incredible, if disheartening. In a mere three years, we went from having a free press, district council elections, a vibrant online community, a combative but reasonably effective LegCo. All that is gone. Head over to the South China Morning Post and see the comments in the articles. All dominated by mainland Chinese, possibly working for the central government. Companies are leaving in droves, taking valuable people with them. Schools are being told to teach National Security Law to kids as young as 5. Even international schools are facing the challenge of allowing discussion in the classroom, under the risk of breaking the NSL. Last week, HK won a medal in fencing at the Olympics. During the medal ceremony, at a packed shopping mall, many people booed the Chinese anthem. They were deemed to be breaking the NSL and were arrested. FOR BOOING THE ANTHEM. https://apnews.com/article/2020-tokyo-olympics-sports-arrests-hong-kong-f57b5d54750ab7afbe51af8fb1ae89f4 https://apnews.com/article/2020-tokyo-olympics-sports-arrest... The National Security Law also prohibits any kind of chants during (now non-existent) protests. People then found a creative way to protest by holding out empty signs in the streets - turns out they're outlawed now too. Yes, empty signs break the National Security Law. This city has been destroyed in the span of months. It's depressing and heart-breaking. I am moving out with my family next summer.
- narrator 5y ago
  Human rights are not a thing in communism. The only thing that matters is success of the party. Its accumulation of power is the measuring stick. Capitalist economics are only allowed because it helps the party succeed and not for any other reason. That's why they execute and fire billionaires all the time. If they are not helping the party succeed in its quest for global domination, they get fired and lose all their assets, rights and even their lives.
  - syops 5y ago
    Isn’t this a property of autocracy? It’s true that pretty much every implemented communist society became autocratic but there are systems - like the one in Iran - that similarly care only about the success of the party in power. The problem is not communism as such but of unchecked, concentrated power.
BurningFrog 5y ago
What the world can do is allow immigration from Hong Kong, while that is still possible.
SPBS 5y ago
The targeting of the education system is insidious. Hong Kong youths may be known for being outspoken about democracy today, but Hong Kong youths tomorrow will become passionate about the CCP. We are seeing a turning point in history.
- danrocks 5y ago
  Take a look at some of the things being done: Under the guidelines, students as young as six years old are expected to learn the names of the four offences under the national security law – subversion, secession, terrorism and collusion with foreign forces – as well as the national flag and anthem and the city’s law enforcement agencies. Schools have also been advised to call police under “grave or emergency” situations involving pupils’ staging campus protests, displaying slogans or forming human chains, while teachers were told not to approach the national security law as a debatable matter. https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/education/article/3123206/national-security-law-international-school-group-not https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/education/article/312320...
- dirtyid 5y ago
  >The targeting of the education system is insidious. The rise in HK liberal values among youth itself was engineered via "insidious" introduction of political education by UK to influence the city's overton window post handover. Curriculum under colonial rule was much more apolitical. Hence why PRC tried so hard to introduce patriotic education to counter such influence. CCP knows better than anyone that education is the greatest propaganda tool of them all. There was early recognition that new generations of HKers would be lost to "foreign" influence ~10 years ago when HK perception of Mainland was highest. Culture war are long wars. The situationw as never tenable. Whether it's insidious brainwashing or mental decolonialzation is matter of perspective, but propaganda works. The HK youths of tomorrow will be sympathetic to PRC / One Country interests. Which for a Chinese city is arguably the way things ought to be.
  - danrocks 5y ago
    You have zero data to back up what you just said. Zero.
steve76 5y ago
Rat on everyone, even if they did nothing wrong. It's fun!
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
VaxportsForever 5y ago
Sounds like China won long ago and the West is only now realizing it.
Proven 5y ago
Red Taliban
PikachuEXE 5y ago
The security laws are sometimes called "public toilet laws" in local forums: they cover so broad in terms of behaviour and apply to everyone (not just on the planet the whole Universe). I live in Hong Kong for over 3X years. Feel free to ask me questions about Hong Kong (I am monitoring replies via RSS feed).
- SixDouble5321 5y ago
  How scary is the thought of going back, if only for a short visit?
  - PikachuEXE 5y ago
    It depends who you are. If you are a existing target/enemy of CCP, you will probably be grabbed secretly (happens before all these laws introduced but probably not that frequent) or grabbed publicly under "diversion" in NSL (most commonly used excuse). If you are a citizen of a strong democratic country (e.g US, UK, Australia, Japan...), you should be fine for this few months. (I can only dare to predict the next few months) If you are a citizen of a weaker democratic country (e.g Taiwan, some smaller Europe countries), you should avoid visiting. Not saying you will be immediate or imminent danger but no point risking it (depends on your purposes). Since the big local press companies like Apple Daily are forced to be shutdown or scared away, corruption start spreading. Accidents and human errors become more covered up / under-reported. (e.g. deaths after vaccine shots, MTR station could be lethal accidents, murders rate raising) There is less to no feedback once the powerful people (not just the government, local big companies too) misbehave accidentally or intentionally. I recommend against visiting HK unless your purposes are worth the increases risks.
fuckchina 5y ago
Every single move by CCP is beyond disgusting. I seriously hope some power players around the world do something to save people in HK.
ilovebiden 5y ago
Born and bred Hong Kong. I am supportive of this bill as usual western media making a mole out of a hill. As usual some western shrills and expats, masquerading as an expert in China policy, continue to cry foul when they are not on the ground. More than anything else, there are Hong Kongers who want peace and security which the western world will never comprehend. Period Hong Kong is part of China.
- hkmaxpro 5y ago
  Nearly 60% of real Hong Kongers held the opposite view. Only about 31% supported the law. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-security-poll-exclusive/exclusive-hk-survey-shows-increasing-majority-back-pro-democracy-goals-smaller-support-for-protest-movement-idUSKBN25Q00U https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-security-poll-ex...
- flycaliguy 5y ago
  Took me a minute to find the hidden message in there. Peace & Love
  - ilovebiden 5y ago
    Hidden message? More like you are blinded by your own bubble.

99 points by v77 5y ago

I realize this isn't a high value comment, but I lived in Hong Kong for a couple years during the handover. The socio-political turmoil over the past few years has been painful to observe.

systemvoltage 5y ago
I used to go there for business. It is a city with rare combination of the eastern and the western values. Hong Kong culture affected me in ways I cannot describe in words. I took photographs on film that I sometimes browse to remind me of those days. I highly recommend Greg Girards albums (esp the ones from Kowloon days): https://www.instagram.com/gregforaday/ https://www.instagram.com/gregforaday/
- danrocks 5y ago
  All that is being washed away. I foresee Hong Kong will be a regular mainland, primarily Mandarin-speaking city within a couple of decades.
culturestate 5y ago
I lived in HK for the better part of a decade (I still do, technically, despite COVID fencing me outside of HK and inside Singapore) and it's hard to articulate just how distressing it is to watch a place that you dearly love literally disappear before your eyes. I have permanent residency and had planned to make HK my long-term home; those plans have evaporated. My friends who've been there even longer than me - many of them from the colonial days - are in the same boat, trying to work out how to sell property they thought they'd always hold and decide where to set up what are effectively completely new lives. At the same time, I feel like this sense of melancholy is almost fraudulent, because I have an option, unlike a lot of the people I know. I can just leave; that avenue isn't available to the lady who's sold flowers on the corner outside my flat for longer than I've been there, or to my local friends whose families didn't take part in the pre-1997 passport arbitrage or who were born too late to get a BNO. Their entire way of life is fundamentally changing in a way they have no control over, and it's heartbreaking.
refurb 5y ago
Underrated comment. It’s interesting to live long enough to see a (relatively) free and open society like Hong Kong get consumed by an authoritarian country that is growing more bold every year.

serialrapist 5y ago

Who gives a fucking shit. They call themselves "Hong Kongers", they can get fucked. What a stupid fucking name for residents of a country. Complete and utter nonsense. BTW, Hong Kong was historically part of China. The only reason we're having this discussion is because they got colonized by the British. Why should I care what happens to a colony that is supposed to be 100% returned to its original country in the next 30 years? Why should I care if they accelerate the process?

throwawaysea 5y ago

This is exactly the same playbook China used to Han-ify (Sinicize) Tibet and Xinjiang. I feel very sad that the people of all these areas are powerless to stop their culture, way of life, and right to self-determination disappear. To a lesser extent, I also see elements of the same - attempts to to police culture, thought, speech, and dissent - appearing elsewhere in the world. While the approaches may be softer and more decentralized (like deplatforming), they are nevertheless problematic. I also see increasing parallels to the loyalty pledges mentioned in the article - for example diversity pledges or corporate trainings that force people to admit their racial guilt, like a struggle session from Mao's cultural revolution (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session) but without the physical violence. We need to value individual freedoms and protect them at every turn to retain free societies. As for China, protecting and returning self-governance to Hong Kong, Xinjiang, Tibet, and Taiwan is an important human rights battle that the rest of the world needs to more actively engage on. Right now, it seems like everyone is on the sidelines letting all of it happen.

Xi_Jinping 5y ago
Anyone who values diversity or civil rights has to acknowledge that the Chinese Communist Party is the largest scale force seeking to destroy diversity and civil rights. Conquered people with culture different than the majority Han culture like the millions of Tibetans, Mongolians, and Uyghurs are often punished for practicing their culture or speaking their language. Uyghur families are forcibly separated, Uyghur adults are forced to labor in sweatshops far from home for little pay, and Uyghur women are forced to get abortions. These people used to learn their cultures and languages in local schools, but now are forced to learn Han culture and speak the language of the Han majority, Mandarin. If you are serious about civil rights and diversity, then you have to be fundamentally opposed to the Chinese Communist Party and their policy of violent forced assimilation of their minorities.

missedthecue 5y ago

China's ability to completely control the domestic narrative is really really underappreciated in my point of view. Not that it is positive from a personal liberties standpoint, but in that sense that it is an incredible strategic asset. Imagine if the second world war had been fought today in the era of entertainment journalism, twitter reactionism, and professional punditry. It would be laughable. The war effort would stall before it began. My grandfather talks to me about how he would enthusiastically walk the streets with his friends after school looking for chewing gum and cigarette wrappers in order to pull the aluminum foil out of the discarded packaging and send the resulting accumulated metal scraps to recycling centers to be made into fighter planes. Things like that would never happen today. 25% the country would insist that Hitler doesn't actually exist, 25% would say the Axis powers are actually doing the right thing and that Pearl Harbor was deserved, 25% would maintain that all calls for intervention are propaganda from the military industrial complex looking to line their pockets at the expense of the public purse, and the remaining 25% would be branded war-mongerers by everyone else. China does not have that problem. Whatever the government in Beijing wants, ~1.4 billion humans also genuinely want.

danrocks 5y ago
Good comment. Additionally, we can't forget the fact that, for all their external policy blunders (which are many), the Chinese leadership is extremely skilled in manipulating domestic public opinion. They have mastered the weaponization of online mobs and are using them to foster a nasty brand of ethno-nationalism that can force even the biggest corporations and foreign celebrities to bend to their will.
axguscbklp 5y ago
US citizens' desire to fight in WW2 perhaps largely came from propaganda to begin with - maybe in the absence of propaganda most of them would have been fine with doing nothing to help Britain, France, etc. About 60% of US WW2 soldiers were drafted, not volunteers. So it is not so much a question of no propaganda in the past versus propaganda today, it is more of a question of more tightly controlled propaganda in the past versus more diverse propaganda today.

cletus 5y ago

So here's a fun fact about the "security" laws China forced down Hong Kong's gullet recently: they apply to everyone on the planet. They're vague and "subversion" pretty much includes anything you want to include. It's anything that makes the Chinese government or Chinese officials look bad, basically. So, if you're not even a citizen of China and you're sitting in Europe or the USA and you make some critical post about China to such a degree that the Chinese government deems it "subversive" and you then make the mistake of transiting the Hong Kong airport, you can be arrested and sent to the Chinese mainland for trial. Interestingly, Qatar has a similar law but it's more limited in scope at least. If however you have a job in Qatar, I'd highly suggest you don't say anything negative about Qatar or the royal family, even on a Facebook post while in a completely different country. People can and have been arrested for this. Also, Qatar is one of the few countries that require an exit visa to leave the country so think twice about working there regardless of that. But I digress. I think it's fair to say that any notion of Hong Kong independence or sovereignty is a thinly-veiled illusion at this point.

danrocks 5y ago
This is correct. If you live in America and you say something that suggests Hong Kong should be independent or that the CPG shouldn't have authority here, you can get arrested when transiting via Hong Kong.
Cyph0n 5y ago
It’s not just Qatar. All of the Gulf monarchies operate in a similar fashion, with the possible exception being Kuwait (closer to a constitutional monarchy than the rest).
guardiangod 5y ago
1. The 'princess' of Huawei, Meng Wanzhou, was transferring flight in Canada when she was arrested on behalf of US. 2. China realizes this is a serious advantage and want to arrest foreign dissidents when they transfer flights in China. But no one transfers flight in any Chinese territories except in...Hong Kong, with its international airport. 3. China pressured the HK government to pass a security law that allows HK government to arrest anyone on behalf of PRC for extradition purposes, even for transferring flights. 4. The HK civilians revolted against the law for obvious reasons. 5. PRC flipped the table, suppressed HK, declared the Sino-British Joint Declaration to be invalid, and changed all the HK government's security officials to ones from the mainland. Oh, and the brainwashing starts. Meanwhile, Meng Wanzhou is relaxing in her multimillion dollar mansion in Vancouver arguing Huawei has no ties to the PRC. roll eyes

danrocks 5y ago

I live in Hong Kong. Arrived here right when the second wave of protests started, in 2018. The speed with which China is changing the face of the city since then has been incredible, if disheartening. In a mere three years, we went from having a free press, district council elections, a vibrant online community, a combative but reasonably effective LegCo. All that is gone. Head over to the South China Morning Post and see the comments in the articles. All dominated by mainland Chinese, possibly working for the central government. Companies are leaving in droves, taking valuable people with them. Schools are being told to teach National Security Law to kids as young as 5. Even international schools are facing the challenge of allowing discussion in the classroom, under the risk of breaking the NSL. Last week, HK won a medal in fencing at the Olympics. During the medal ceremony, at a packed shopping mall, many people booed the Chinese anthem. They were deemed to be breaking the NSL and were arrested. FOR BOOING THE ANTHEM. https://apnews.com/article/2020-tokyo-olympics-sports-arrests-hong-kong-f57b5d54750ab7afbe51af8fb1ae89f4 https://apnews.com/article/2020-tokyo-olympics-sports-arrest... The National Security Law also prohibits any kind of chants during (now non-existent) protests. People then found a creative way to protest by holding out empty signs in the streets - turns out they're outlawed now too. Yes, empty signs break the National Security Law. This city has been destroyed in the span of months. It's depressing and heart-breaking. I am moving out with my family next summer.

narrator 5y ago
Human rights are not a thing in communism. The only thing that matters is success of the party. Its accumulation of power is the measuring stick. Capitalist economics are only allowed because it helps the party succeed and not for any other reason. That's why they execute and fire billionaires all the time. If they are not helping the party succeed in its quest for global domination, they get fired and lose all their assets, rights and even their lives.
- syops 5y ago
  Isn’t this a property of autocracy? It’s true that pretty much every implemented communist society became autocratic but there are systems - like the one in Iran - that similarly care only about the success of the party in power. The problem is not communism as such but of unchecked, concentrated power.

BurningFrog 5y ago

What the world can do is allow immigration from Hong Kong, while that is still possible.

SPBS 5y ago

The targeting of the education system is insidious. Hong Kong youths may be known for being outspoken about democracy today, but Hong Kong youths tomorrow will become passionate about the CCP. We are seeing a turning point in history.

danrocks 5y ago
Take a look at some of the things being done: Under the guidelines, students as young as six years old are expected to learn the names of the four offences under the national security law – subversion, secession, terrorism and collusion with foreign forces – as well as the national flag and anthem and the city’s law enforcement agencies. Schools have also been advised to call police under “grave or emergency” situations involving pupils’ staging campus protests, displaying slogans or forming human chains, while teachers were told not to approach the national security law as a debatable matter. https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/education/article/3123206/national-security-law-international-school-group-not https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/education/article/312320...
dirtyid 5y ago
>The targeting of the education system is insidious. The rise in HK liberal values among youth itself was engineered via "insidious" introduction of political education by UK to influence the city's overton window post handover. Curriculum under colonial rule was much more apolitical. Hence why PRC tried so hard to introduce patriotic education to counter such influence. CCP knows better than anyone that education is the greatest propaganda tool of them all. There was early recognition that new generations of HKers would be lost to "foreign" influence ~10 years ago when HK perception of Mainland was highest. Culture war are long wars. The situationw as never tenable. Whether it's insidious brainwashing or mental decolonialzation is matter of perspective, but propaganda works. The HK youths of tomorrow will be sympathetic to PRC / One Country interests. Which for a Chinese city is arguably the way things ought to be.
- danrocks 5y ago
  You have zero data to back up what you just said. Zero.

steve76 5y ago

Rat on everyone, even if they did nothing wrong. It's fun!

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

VaxportsForever 5y ago

Sounds like China won long ago and the West is only now realizing it.

Proven 5y ago

Red Taliban

PikachuEXE 5y ago

The security laws are sometimes called "public toilet laws" in local forums: they cover so broad in terms of behaviour and apply to everyone (not just on the planet the whole Universe). I live in Hong Kong for over 3X years. Feel free to ask me questions about Hong Kong (I am monitoring replies via RSS feed).

SixDouble5321 5y ago
How scary is the thought of going back, if only for a short visit?
- PikachuEXE 5y ago
  It depends who you are. If you are a existing target/enemy of CCP, you will probably be grabbed secretly (happens before all these laws introduced but probably not that frequent) or grabbed publicly under "diversion" in NSL (most commonly used excuse). If you are a citizen of a strong democratic country (e.g US, UK, Australia, Japan...), you should be fine for this few months. (I can only dare to predict the next few months) If you are a citizen of a weaker democratic country (e.g Taiwan, some smaller Europe countries), you should avoid visiting. Not saying you will be immediate or imminent danger but no point risking it (depends on your purposes). Since the big local press companies like Apple Daily are forced to be shutdown or scared away, corruption start spreading. Accidents and human errors become more covered up / under-reported. (e.g. deaths after vaccine shots, MTR station could be lethal accidents, murders rate raising) There is less to no feedback once the powerful people (not just the government, local big companies too) misbehave accidentally or intentionally. I recommend against visiting HK unless your purposes are worth the increases risks.

fuckchina 5y ago

Every single move by CCP is beyond disgusting. I seriously hope some power players around the world do something to save people in HK.

ilovebiden 5y ago

Born and bred Hong Kong. I am supportive of this bill as usual western media making a mole out of a hill. As usual some western shrills and expats, masquerading as an expert in China policy, continue to cry foul when they are not on the ground. More than anything else, there are Hong Kongers who want peace and security which the western world will never comprehend. Period Hong Kong is part of China.

hkmaxpro 5y ago
Nearly 60% of real Hong Kongers held the opposite view. Only about 31% supported the law. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-security-poll-exclusive/exclusive-hk-survey-shows-increasing-majority-back-pro-democracy-goals-smaller-support-for-protest-movement-idUSKBN25Q00U https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-security-poll-ex...
flycaliguy 5y ago
Took me a minute to find the hidden message in there. Peace & Love
- ilovebiden 5y ago
  Hidden message? More like you are blinded by your own bubble.