4 ms·

Moderna estimated to have half the risk of break through infection by delta variant. Moderna and Pfizer both have comparable (low) risk of hospitalization and

Moderna estimated to have half the risk of break through infection by delta variant. Moderna and Pfizer both have comparable (low) risk of hospitalization and death when infected with delta variant. Primary difference vaccines is dosage (Moderna had a bit over 3x amount of material per shot) and maybe scheduling (Pfizer was scheduled for 21 days between shots, Moderna for 28 - though given how shots were actually administered in reality, this is probably a wash). Study design has many limitations, but is probably reasonably generalizable. As a Canadian with combo Pfizer+Moderna, I am personally curious what my risk profile would look like. I wonder if a similar study on Canadian data could be useful - an intermediate risk profile for the combo shot would sure be persuasive evidence. Edit: Removed ambiguity in second sentence.

jumelles 5y ago
> Moderna and Pfizer both have comparable (low) risk of hospitalization and death. This is still probably the most important overall point.
jaspergilley 5y ago
Wait, was your combo shot one of each? or two of each? I've been curious to learn more about getting both (already had two Pfizer) but resources on the matter are hard to find
- hbrav 5y ago
  Some Canadian provinces treated mRNA vaccines as interchangeable. In Ontario a lot of people got a first dose of Pfizer and a second of Moderna. There's currently a study underway in the UK (I forget the name, but it run by the University of Oxford) to assess the efficacy of mixed-dose vaccination.
  - gpm 5y ago
    More than mRNA vaccines as interchangeable, we (Ontario) mostly treated the oxford vaccine as interchangeable with the mRNA vaccines too, until we started giving it to less people.
- yabones 5y ago
  Not gp, but I'm also a Canadian with the covid-cocktail. I got my Pfizer back in May, and then my Moderna at the beginning of July. Some of the older (55+) crowd got a different mixture, with AstraZeneca shots in the early spring and Pfizer early summer. Say what you will about our weird combos, but we have a very high number of people immunized now, so it seems to be working...
  - jagger27 5y ago
    Same here in Canada. I got Pfizer through public health followed by Moderna 8 weeks later at a walk in pharmacy.
- Sanzig 5y ago
  Many Canadian provinces did a Moderna/Pfizer combo (one shot of each) to address shortages and get more people fully vaccinated faster.
  - travoc 5y ago
    It sounds like they were really following the science, and trying some new stuff along the way.
    - relax88 5y ago
      Yes, you should have seen how much complaining it generated!
- wheelinsupial 5y ago
  I’m Canadian and had one shot of AZ as a first dose. Followed by one shot of Moderna maybe 10 or 11 weeks after the first does of AZ.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- thro1 5y ago
  The best combo so far (June) was AstraZeneca first then Pfizer (not the opposite, nothing then about Moderna), the next good one will be probably intranasal AstraZeneca after some mRNA: Mixed Oxford/Pfizer vaccine schedules generate robust immune response against COVID-19, finds Oxford-led study: https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-06-28-mixed-oxfordpfizer-vaccine-schedules-generate-robust-immune-response-against-covid https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-06-28-mixed-oxfordpfizer-vacc... , .. https://science.sciencemag.org/content/373/6553/397 https://science.sciencemag.org/content/373/6553/397 - "the ideal vaccination strategy may use an intramuscular vaccine to elicit a long-lived systemic IgG response and a broad repertoire of central memory B and T cells, followed by an intranasal booster that recruits memory B and T cells to the nasal passages and further guides their differentiation toward mucosal protection, including IgA secretion and tissue-resident memory cells in the respiratory tract." .. (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28019151 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28019151), https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28016821 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28016821 - Covid-19 Vaccine Intranasal Study (COV008), UK phase 1 trial recruiting, That said, current vaccines don't provoke the exact same response as an actual infection, particularly in that they don't fully stimulate an immune response in the mucous membranes of the upper repository tract. Here's an Scientific American round-up article (from back in March): https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-beat-covid-we-may-need-a-good-shot-in-the-nose/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-beat-covid-we-... [..] The current vaccines are excellent at helping the body stop the virus as it progresses into the lungs and further (thus the massive reduction in severe illness and deaths). But it still means that there's a period of a few days after initial infection when a vaccinated person has a relatively naive immune response (while the virus is mostly just in the nose/throat). This would then result in the person still being pretty contagious. (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28014448 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28014448). I would like to see intranasal Novavax (intranasal mRNA is more difficult ?), having good results, as an option to this mix..
TacticalCoder 5y ago
> Moderna and Pfizer both have comparable (low) risk of hospitalization and death. You mean if you then get the delta variant? Or low risk of hospitalization and death by simply getting the shot?
- Gaelan 5y ago
  I'd assume the former.
- icegreentea2 5y ago
  I intended to mean about the hospitalization and death risk of the delta variant while vaccinated.
version_five 5y ago
The other thing you allude to is the timing. I'm in Canada too, and got my shots 8 weeks apart which was the earliest possible due to availability. For people that got their first shot early, I think the delay is even longer. And now I believe it's back to the manufacturer recommendations. I understood there are studies that say a longer delay may be better, so I'd be curious too how the result here translates to people who had a much longer time between shots. Was the UK also in this situation?
jacquesm 5y ago
Your comment is a bit ambiguous, suggest rewording the second sentence to indicate that you mean through infection rather than through the vaccination itself.
nelox 5y ago
It seems a risky proposition without sufficient evidence for safety and efficacy. https://globalnews.ca/news/8021692/mixing-covid-19-vaccines-dangerous-trend-who/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8021692/mixing-covid-19-vaccines-...
MajorPat 5y ago
What test is used to distinguish between the original virus and the delta variant?
- icegreentea2 5y ago
  In this study, they did not directly do that. Instead they extrapolated from the population/state level delta prevalence estimates (so whatever the state was doing to do that.. probably sequencing) over different time intervals.
dirtyid 5y ago
My understanding was that moderna had 3x more active vaccine ingredients and lower cold chain requirements, while Pfizer also needed to be mixed / prepared before injection. It seems like Pfizer had more opportunties go wrong especially when rollout was outside of hospital settings and at population scale. My understanding was initially Pfizer was limited to hospitals in Canada, but ended up in pharmacies and other temporary sites.
raxxorrax 5y ago
I have seen Pfizer girl videos, so I am glad I got Moderna. Nobody can convince me Pfizer doesn't cause mental damage. To be fair, you would have a low chance without any vaccinations as well. I think in the lower age brackets the risk reduction was < 10%, which is perhaps even in the range of statistical fluctuations even with large sample groups. At least the data I saw last, cannot find it currently.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

jumelles 5y ago

> Moderna and Pfizer both have comparable (low) risk of hospitalization and death. This is still probably the most important overall point.

jaspergilley 5y ago

Wait, was your combo shot one of each? or two of each? I've been curious to learn more about getting both (already had two Pfizer) but resources on the matter are hard to find

hbrav 5y ago
Some Canadian provinces treated mRNA vaccines as interchangeable. In Ontario a lot of people got a first dose of Pfizer and a second of Moderna. There's currently a study underway in the UK (I forget the name, but it run by the University of Oxford) to assess the efficacy of mixed-dose vaccination.
- gpm 5y ago
  More than mRNA vaccines as interchangeable, we (Ontario) mostly treated the oxford vaccine as interchangeable with the mRNA vaccines too, until we started giving it to less people.
yabones 5y ago
Not gp, but I'm also a Canadian with the covid-cocktail. I got my Pfizer back in May, and then my Moderna at the beginning of July. Some of the older (55+) crowd got a different mixture, with AstraZeneca shots in the early spring and Pfizer early summer. Say what you will about our weird combos, but we have a very high number of people immunized now, so it seems to be working...
- jagger27 5y ago
  Same here in Canada. I got Pfizer through public health followed by Moderna 8 weeks later at a walk in pharmacy.
Sanzig 5y ago
Many Canadian provinces did a Moderna/Pfizer combo (one shot of each) to address shortages and get more people fully vaccinated faster.
- travoc 5y ago
  It sounds like they were really following the science, and trying some new stuff along the way.
  - relax88 5y ago
    Yes, you should have seen how much complaining it generated!
wheelinsupial 5y ago
I’m Canadian and had one shot of AZ as a first dose. Followed by one shot of Moderna maybe 10 or 11 weeks after the first does of AZ.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
thro1 5y ago
The best combo so far (June) was AstraZeneca first then Pfizer (not the opposite, nothing then about Moderna), the next good one will be probably intranasal AstraZeneca after some mRNA: Mixed Oxford/Pfizer vaccine schedules generate robust immune response against COVID-19, finds Oxford-led study: https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-06-28-mixed-oxfordpfizer-vaccine-schedules-generate-robust-immune-response-against-covid https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-06-28-mixed-oxfordpfizer-vacc... , .. https://science.sciencemag.org/content/373/6553/397 https://science.sciencemag.org/content/373/6553/397 - "the ideal vaccination strategy may use an intramuscular vaccine to elicit a long-lived systemic IgG response and a broad repertoire of central memory B and T cells, followed by an intranasal booster that recruits memory B and T cells to the nasal passages and further guides their differentiation toward mucosal protection, including IgA secretion and tissue-resident memory cells in the respiratory tract." .. (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28019151 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28019151), https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28016821 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28016821 - Covid-19 Vaccine Intranasal Study (COV008), UK phase 1 trial recruiting, That said, current vaccines don't provoke the exact same response as an actual infection, particularly in that they don't fully stimulate an immune response in the mucous membranes of the upper repository tract. Here's an Scientific American round-up article (from back in March): https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-beat-covid-we-may-need-a-good-shot-in-the-nose/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-beat-covid-we-... [..] The current vaccines are excellent at helping the body stop the virus as it progresses into the lungs and further (thus the massive reduction in severe illness and deaths). But it still means that there's a period of a few days after initial infection when a vaccinated person has a relatively naive immune response (while the virus is mostly just in the nose/throat). This would then result in the person still being pretty contagious. (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28014448 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28014448). I would like to see intranasal Novavax (intranasal mRNA is more difficult ?), having good results, as an option to this mix..

TacticalCoder 5y ago

> Moderna and Pfizer both have comparable (low) risk of hospitalization and death. You mean if you then get the delta variant? Or low risk of hospitalization and death by simply getting the shot?

Gaelan 5y ago
I'd assume the former.
icegreentea2 5y ago
I intended to mean about the hospitalization and death risk of the delta variant while vaccinated.

version_five 5y ago

The other thing you allude to is the timing. I'm in Canada too, and got my shots 8 weeks apart which was the earliest possible due to availability. For people that got their first shot early, I think the delay is even longer. And now I believe it's back to the manufacturer recommendations. I understood there are studies that say a longer delay may be better, so I'd be curious too how the result here translates to people who had a much longer time between shots. Was the UK also in this situation?

jacquesm 5y ago

Your comment is a bit ambiguous, suggest rewording the second sentence to indicate that you mean through infection rather than through the vaccination itself.

nelox 5y ago

It seems a risky proposition without sufficient evidence for safety and efficacy. https://globalnews.ca/news/8021692/mixing-covid-19-vaccines-dangerous-trend-who/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8021692/mixing-covid-19-vaccines-...

MajorPat 5y ago

What test is used to distinguish between the original virus and the delta variant?

icegreentea2 5y ago
In this study, they did not directly do that. Instead they extrapolated from the population/state level delta prevalence estimates (so whatever the state was doing to do that.. probably sequencing) over different time intervals.

dirtyid 5y ago

My understanding was that moderna had 3x more active vaccine ingredients and lower cold chain requirements, while Pfizer also needed to be mixed / prepared before injection. It seems like Pfizer had more opportunties go wrong especially when rollout was outside of hospital settings and at population scale. My understanding was initially Pfizer was limited to hospitals in Canada, but ended up in pharmacies and other temporary sites.

raxxorrax 5y ago

I have seen Pfizer girl videos, so I am glad I got Moderna. Nobody can convince me Pfizer doesn't cause mental damage. To be fair, you would have a low chance without any vaccinations as well. I think in the lower age brackets the risk reduction was < 10%, which is perhaps even in the range of statistical fluctuations even with large sample groups. At least the data I saw last, cannot find it currently.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]