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Instead of reflexively dismissing, lets look at actual results. For a way to foster a new industry, we can look at Berlin. SAP is one of the largest software c

Instead of reflexively dismissing, lets look at actual results. For a way to foster a new industry, we can look at Berlin. SAP is one of the largest software companies in the world and also headquartered in Germany (not Silicon Valley). One of their initial founders, Hasso Plattner, has created the Hasso Plattner Institute [0] in Berlin (Potsdam, really). The Institute's focus has been primarily on business processes and software to analyze and improve those processes. Two of that institutes startups have been acquired in the past 6 months. Appian buys Lana Labs [1] SAP to Acquire Signavio [2] EDIT TO ADD: Before Silicon Valley was the heart of innovation, it was New Jersey and Upstate NY. Things change and governments are wise to invest that way. [0] https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjhyd6T1KnyAhUFK80KHbOHCNUQFnoECAMQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fhpi.de%2Fen%2Findex.html&usg=AOvVaw1GeoUUw8SH8aXLMamj3uoA https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c... [1] https://www.startbase.com/news/appian-kauft-lana-labs/ https://www.startbase.com/news/appian-kauft-lana-labs/ [2] https://www.summitpartners.com/news/Promoting-Process-Excellence-SAP-Acquires-Signavio https://www.summitpartners.com/news/Promoting-Process-Excell...

wumpus 5y ago
That's two comments in a row where you've started off with an insult. And your data? TWO EXITS.
- long_time_gone 5y ago
  We can disagree with what constitutes an insult. As for the data, I was just showing an example of the beginning of a potential process mining cluster. Alignment from govt, VCs, and Universities leading to academic research and new startups.
jacquesm 5y ago
I've been looking in-depth at the actual results for the last 15 years professionally as an investor in Europe and a service provider to a very large fraction of the EU investment scene, and before that as an entrepreneur. Your proof amounts to absolutely nothing on the scale of any European country versus Silicon Valley and to claim that it does is risible, and does the EU a disservice. If you are serious about making a dent in this then the best way forward is to acquire some background knowledge on the difference in scale that you are looking at. It is quite possible to start a novel company in the EU. It is next to impossible to do so without either getting a much better funded and faster (and quite often better) executing competitor from the United States to come along and eat you for lunch, acquire you or woo your customers away with a 'free' plan that puts you out of business. That there are a few exceptions to that rule proves the rule, not the opposite.
- nickpp 5y ago
  What are you investing in then?
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    To date in > 20 start-ups of many different kinds, medical, social media, hard tech, consumer goods and so on, a fairly good mix of various segments. Edit: updated the count.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      Ah and I forgot to mention one of the ones I'm most happy about and which indirectly got generated through HN, a food start-up in America.
    - nickpp 5y ago
      Then maybe there is hope for European startups after all and it’s not so all gloom and doom?
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        Absolutely. But if you have the option to join YC or some other US based accelerator you should probably jump at the opportunity.
aerosmile 5y ago
I only shared my parent comment with the hope that some people might benefit from the lessons I've acquired quite painfully and over many years. It's not a diss at anyone's country or sense of pride. From the governments' perspective, it makes perfect sense to do everything they can to turn their countries into the next Silicon Valley. Same with the VCs - there's a lot of money to be made with the local talent that for whatever reason chooses to work in a geo with less attractive valuations and less favorable terms for the same quality of work. But from the entrepreneurs' perspective, it really does matter if your local VC can get away with shenanigans because they are a big fish in a small pond [0]. [0] In this context, small pond is not a measure of the size of the city or its population, but instead a measure of the opportunity cost. If a NY VC screws over a NY entrepreneur and that entrepreneur somehow gets a big enough megaphone to ruin that VC's reputation, the VC in question would simply just focus on one of the many other sectors of finance that exist in NY (eg: private equity, investment banking, etc). If the same thing happened in the SF Bay Area, that VC would have to relocate their family to a different city in order to have a hope of a career in something related to finance. I am exaggerating a little bit, but not much. That power dynamic is very evident in interactions with VCs in the SF Bay Area.
adventured 5y ago
> SAP is one of the largest software companies in the world and also headquartered in Germany (not Silicon Valley) It should then be noted that SAP has been left behind and is approaching fossil status. They're not a great example of a thriving European tech company (there are far better examples of that, such as ASML). If they run any slower they'll shortly be the next IBM. Someone should knock them off in Europe, they're begging to be toppled by a local, faster moving upstart. CRM had $10b in sales in 2018. Now they're at $22b (trailing four quarters). SAP had $23b in sales in 2018. Now they're at $27b. Run a reasonable growth projection on the two for the rest of this decade and it ends with CRM being twice the size of SAP. And of course everyone knows the AWS growth story. I suppose SAP is keeping growth pace with Oracle, which similarly has little growth and is also a fossil that is hoping to not get killed off in this era's inflection. In the time that Microsoft has become a planet eating juggernaut with $70 billion in operating income, SAP has been mostly swimming sideways. Azure is an increasingly huge business for Microsoft, and it'll end up larger than SAP all by itself. SAP used to be a substantial peer to Microsoft in the software world, if you go back ~15-20 years ago, in terms of scale. SAP was a very prominent first tier software company, now they're not, they're fading (and yes, I know lots of companies still use their software; the same goes for Oracle).
- slownews45 5y ago
  I like SAP. I think they are doing pretty well with the new direction, common platform etc. But yes - Microsoft for example, if they decided to play harder / lean in more on the ERP space - going to be compelling for folks. I think microsoft needs a few more years to sort out / gel their story (ie, get to Azure, get rid of some of the crap old ballmer style stuff). I don't see SAP though as a good example of a silicon valley startup scene. Can you start a new SAP in EU? Not so sure. Can def do it in US (Sap also competes and wins against Workday). I'm not counting SAP out yet - I think their leadership hasn't been bad - which is key.

wumpus 5y ago

That's two comments in a row where you've started off with an insult. And your data? TWO EXITS.

long_time_gone 5y ago
We can disagree with what constitutes an insult. As for the data, I was just showing an example of the beginning of a potential process mining cluster. Alignment from govt, VCs, and Universities leading to academic research and new startups.

jacquesm 5y ago

I've been looking in-depth at the actual results for the last 15 years professionally as an investor in Europe and a service provider to a very large fraction of the EU investment scene, and before that as an entrepreneur. Your proof amounts to absolutely nothing on the scale of any European country versus Silicon Valley and to claim that it does is risible, and does the EU a disservice. If you are serious about making a dent in this then the best way forward is to acquire some background knowledge on the difference in scale that you are looking at. It is quite possible to start a novel company in the EU. It is next to impossible to do so without either getting a much better funded and faster (and quite often better) executing competitor from the United States to come along and eat you for lunch, acquire you or woo your customers away with a 'free' plan that puts you out of business. That there are a few exceptions to that rule proves the rule, not the opposite.

nickpp 5y ago
What are you investing in then?
- jacquesm 5y ago
  To date in > 20 start-ups of many different kinds, medical, social media, hard tech, consumer goods and so on, a fairly good mix of various segments. Edit: updated the count.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Ah and I forgot to mention one of the ones I'm most happy about and which indirectly got generated through HN, a food start-up in America.
  - nickpp 5y ago
    Then maybe there is hope for European startups after all and it’s not so all gloom and doom?
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      Absolutely. But if you have the option to join YC or some other US based accelerator you should probably jump at the opportunity.

aerosmile 5y ago

I only shared my parent comment with the hope that some people might benefit from the lessons I've acquired quite painfully and over many years. It's not a diss at anyone's country or sense of pride. From the governments' perspective, it makes perfect sense to do everything they can to turn their countries into the next Silicon Valley. Same with the VCs - there's a lot of money to be made with the local talent that for whatever reason chooses to work in a geo with less attractive valuations and less favorable terms for the same quality of work. But from the entrepreneurs' perspective, it really does matter if your local VC can get away with shenanigans because they are a big fish in a small pond [0]. [0] In this context, small pond is not a measure of the size of the city or its population, but instead a measure of the opportunity cost. If a NY VC screws over a NY entrepreneur and that entrepreneur somehow gets a big enough megaphone to ruin that VC's reputation, the VC in question would simply just focus on one of the many other sectors of finance that exist in NY (eg: private equity, investment banking, etc). If the same thing happened in the SF Bay Area, that VC would have to relocate their family to a different city in order to have a hope of a career in something related to finance. I am exaggerating a little bit, but not much. That power dynamic is very evident in interactions with VCs in the SF Bay Area.

adventured 5y ago

> SAP is one of the largest software companies in the world and also headquartered in Germany (not Silicon Valley) It should then be noted that SAP has been left behind and is approaching fossil status. They're not a great example of a thriving European tech company (there are far better examples of that, such as ASML). If they run any slower they'll shortly be the next IBM. Someone should knock them off in Europe, they're begging to be toppled by a local, faster moving upstart. CRM had $10b in sales in 2018. Now they're at $22b (trailing four quarters). SAP had $23b in sales in 2018. Now they're at $27b. Run a reasonable growth projection on the two for the rest of this decade and it ends with CRM being twice the size of SAP. And of course everyone knows the AWS growth story. I suppose SAP is keeping growth pace with Oracle, which similarly has little growth and is also a fossil that is hoping to not get killed off in this era's inflection. In the time that Microsoft has become a planet eating juggernaut with $70 billion in operating income, SAP has been mostly swimming sideways. Azure is an increasingly huge business for Microsoft, and it'll end up larger than SAP all by itself. SAP used to be a substantial peer to Microsoft in the software world, if you go back ~15-20 years ago, in terms of scale. SAP was a very prominent first tier software company, now they're not, they're fading (and yes, I know lots of companies still use their software; the same goes for Oracle).

slownews45 5y ago
I like SAP. I think they are doing pretty well with the new direction, common platform etc. But yes - Microsoft for example, if they decided to play harder / lean in more on the ERP space - going to be compelling for folks. I think microsoft needs a few more years to sort out / gel their story (ie, get to Azure, get rid of some of the crap old ballmer style stuff). I don't see SAP though as a good example of a silicon valley startup scene. Can you start a new SAP in EU? Not so sure. Can def do it in US (Sap also competes and wins against Workday). I'm not counting SAP out yet - I think their leadership hasn't been bad - which is key.