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I am wary of requiring an internet connection in order to develop, but there seem to be more and more advantages to using something like Codespaces. The articl

by pegler 5y ago

I am wary of requiring an internet connection in order to develop, but there seem to be more and more advantages to using something like Codespaces. The article describes using pretty much any IDE, so they are just offloading the setup and running of the development environment to the cloud while letting you run your preferred IDE locally.

thomascgalvin 5y ago
An internet connection is already required for dependency management and stack overflow. I already develop with an always-on connection.
- gnull 5y ago
  Dependency management is usually not a big part of programmer workflow (unless you are a devops or something). Download dependencies and docs, go offline, write code. People who try working offline are exactly the people who want to do it without Stackoverflow.
  - ryanianian 5y ago
    They're also the people least likely to want to use this kind of setup in my experience. My company has a remote VSCode setup not that dissimilar from this setup. Big C++ codebase. Many engineers love it, even some of the "old timers." Our interns can be productive on day one and it brings a lot of productivity to not have to worry about caring for your dev environment. But there are plenty of people who really just want to SSH into a beefy desktop (or directly edit on that desktop) and use their vim/emacs setups. These are the people who know how the whole build stack works, can debug the vscode/codespace magic, and can do amazing things not available in the VSCode plugin library. So it's good to be able to do both. Allow power users to use their own tools, but don't require everyone to be a power user to sit down and write some business logic. Give nice rails to ride but don't require them.
- tshaddox 5y ago
  An internet connection is also required for fairly important things like pushing your code, giving and receiving code reviews, etc.
georgeecollins 5y ago
I can see how a web based IDE speeds up on boarding and reduces the friction in support and collaboration. But I wonder if it reduces the skills engineers develop over time?
- jackling 5y ago
  What skills would developers really lose? Speeding up boarding seems like a win, not many skills are developed imo trying to set up you personal dev environment. It's mostly just frustrating when a company's tools don't work well on your machine.
  - gnull 5y ago
    Being able to manage the frustration could be one such skill. And also being ready to fix things instead of assuming that employer must set up a perfectly working environment for you. I bet smaller/poorer companies may want programmers who are ready to fix tooling when it (inevitably) breaks
    - jackling 5y ago
      I see your point, but I think increasing productivity may be worth potentially losing some of the skills you mentioned. Additionally, it's not like developer set up is the only thing that test your ability to manage frustration. I would say developer set-up is just something you need to get through to start your actual job, and if that can be eased up then it's worth it imo. For smaller/poorer companies, they could always hire an engineer that specializes in fixing broken tooling. Ultimately it's a company's job to hire competent engineers. Thinking back to all the times I had to set up my workspace, I wonder how much did I really learn vs just Googling and getting quick fixes.
gnull 5y ago
Some people literally disconnect the cable to get rid of all the online distractions. I've seen this mentioned in a few threads on procrastination here. It's sad some tools will not let you do that anymore.

by pegler 5y ago

thomascgalvin 5y ago

An internet connection is already required for dependency management and stack overflow. I already develop with an always-on connection.

gnull 5y ago
Dependency management is usually not a big part of programmer workflow (unless you are a devops or something). Download dependencies and docs, go offline, write code. People who try working offline are exactly the people who want to do it without Stackoverflow.
- ryanianian 5y ago
  They're also the people least likely to want to use this kind of setup in my experience. My company has a remote VSCode setup not that dissimilar from this setup. Big C++ codebase. Many engineers love it, even some of the "old timers." Our interns can be productive on day one and it brings a lot of productivity to not have to worry about caring for your dev environment. But there are plenty of people who really just want to SSH into a beefy desktop (or directly edit on that desktop) and use their vim/emacs setups. These are the people who know how the whole build stack works, can debug the vscode/codespace magic, and can do amazing things not available in the VSCode plugin library. So it's good to be able to do both. Allow power users to use their own tools, but don't require everyone to be a power user to sit down and write some business logic. Give nice rails to ride but don't require them.
tshaddox 5y ago
An internet connection is also required for fairly important things like pushing your code, giving and receiving code reviews, etc.

georgeecollins 5y ago

I can see how a web based IDE speeds up on boarding and reduces the friction in support and collaboration. But I wonder if it reduces the skills engineers develop over time?

jackling 5y ago
What skills would developers really lose? Speeding up boarding seems like a win, not many skills are developed imo trying to set up you personal dev environment. It's mostly just frustrating when a company's tools don't work well on your machine.
- gnull 5y ago
  Being able to manage the frustration could be one such skill. And also being ready to fix things instead of assuming that employer must set up a perfectly working environment for you. I bet smaller/poorer companies may want programmers who are ready to fix tooling when it (inevitably) breaks
  - jackling 5y ago
    I see your point, but I think increasing productivity may be worth potentially losing some of the skills you mentioned. Additionally, it's not like developer set up is the only thing that test your ability to manage frustration. I would say developer set-up is just something you need to get through to start your actual job, and if that can be eased up then it's worth it imo. For smaller/poorer companies, they could always hire an engineer that specializes in fixing broken tooling. Ultimately it's a company's job to hire competent engineers. Thinking back to all the times I had to set up my workspace, I wonder how much did I really learn vs just Googling and getting quick fixes.

gnull 5y ago

Some people literally disconnect the cable to get rid of all the online distractions. I've seen this mentioned in a few threads on procrastination here. It's sad some tools will not let you do that anymore.