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With the latest changes to those laws that's not true anymore. Now even minors can get prosecuted for CP. I should have mentioned this explicitly in addition.

With the latest changes to those laws that's not true anymore. Now even minors can get prosecuted for CP. I should have mentioned this explicitly in addition. https://www.heise.de/news/Kinderpornografie-Immer-mehr-Ermittlungen-gegen-Jugendliche-4931219.html https://www.heise.de/news/Kinderpornografie-Immer-mehr-Ermit... https://www.heise.de/news/Kinderpornografie-Kinder-und-Jugendliche-auch-in-Niedersachsen-oefter-im-Visier-4938437.html https://www.heise.de/news/Kinderpornografie-Kinder-und-Jugen...

peoplefromibiza 5y ago
Thanks for the links, my German is basic at best, so I used the Google translate version in English and, AFAIK, minors receiving it in a class chat or from other people not knowing it are liable of owning CP > Twenty years ago it was assumed that no one would inadvertently own child pornography. > As soon as a 13-year-old sends a pornographic medium of herself and it ends up in a class chat in some form, every member of this chat can be liable to prosecution. Unless I am missing something, It doesn't refer to two minors sending each other pictures, even though I agree that the scale the phenomenon has assumed in the past 20 years is somewhat scary.
- still_grokking 5y ago
  You get only cases when the authorities get to know. Teachers are for example required to report cases in class. But the same laws apply of course to any such content minors create and send to each other. Only that it doesn't get reported in any case (until now e2e encrypted chat is completely private for example; Apple is working on changing that though). But there are cases where things got reported to authorities by social media companies, when kids used unencrypted messaging for example. Where else all that giant numbers of child porn on social media come form? Form a few cases before all the new laws to thousands of cases now? No real pedo would exchange such material in the open as it's commonly known that those companies are scanning for it. That's mostly children not aware that they don't communicate really privately! With the new law in place the numbers of such cases will skyrocket likely. As now it's going to be mandatory to scan for such content and directly report it to the authorities. They can than say, "look, the amount of child pornography cases on the internet is skyrocketing. We need more online surveillance to fight this epidemic! To do that effectively we finally also need to solve the encryption problem"… This game has been going on for quite some time now. The goal is also clear: More surveillance. This new law now is just the next step on a long journey. CP (besides "terrorism") is the vehicle to sell things to the people. It's always "terrorism" or child porn when they want to cut down the next civil rights…
  - peoplefromibiza 5y ago
    I don't disagree with you and I am worried myself. But this specific law is simply asking tech giants to comply, it is not over reaching, like the Apple new features that creates perceptual hashes on people's phones and than upload them to Apple servers, potentially forever. Some control over content was to be expected, but until the EU mandates that every cloud provider should look for something controversial (political affiliation, controversial opinions etc. etc.) they can't be enforced and they can't be collected by companies operating in Europe or on European citizens' data. It's a big difference IMO.

peoplefromibiza 5y ago

Thanks for the links, my German is basic at best, so I used the Google translate version in English and, AFAIK, minors receiving it in a class chat or from other people not knowing it are liable of owning CP > Twenty years ago it was assumed that no one would inadvertently own child pornography. > As soon as a 13-year-old sends a pornographic medium of herself and it ends up in a class chat in some form, every member of this chat can be liable to prosecution. Unless I am missing something, It doesn't refer to two minors sending each other pictures, even though I agree that the scale the phenomenon has assumed in the past 20 years is somewhat scary.

still_grokking 5y ago
You get only cases when the authorities get to know. Teachers are for example required to report cases in class. But the same laws apply of course to any such content minors create and send to each other. Only that it doesn't get reported in any case (until now e2e encrypted chat is completely private for example; Apple is working on changing that though). But there are cases where things got reported to authorities by social media companies, when kids used unencrypted messaging for example. Where else all that giant numbers of child porn on social media come form? Form a few cases before all the new laws to thousands of cases now? No real pedo would exchange such material in the open as it's commonly known that those companies are scanning for it. That's mostly children not aware that they don't communicate really privately! With the new law in place the numbers of such cases will skyrocket likely. As now it's going to be mandatory to scan for such content and directly report it to the authorities. They can than say, "look, the amount of child pornography cases on the internet is skyrocketing. We need more online surveillance to fight this epidemic! To do that effectively we finally also need to solve the encryption problem"… This game has been going on for quite some time now. The goal is also clear: More surveillance. This new law now is just the next step on a long journey. CP (besides "terrorism") is the vehicle to sell things to the people. It's always "terrorism" or child porn when they want to cut down the next civil rights…
- peoplefromibiza 5y ago
  I don't disagree with you and I am worried myself. But this specific law is simply asking tech giants to comply, it is not over reaching, like the Apple new features that creates perceptual hashes on people's phones and than upload them to Apple servers, potentially forever. Some control over content was to be expected, but until the EU mandates that every cloud provider should look for something controversial (political affiliation, controversial opinions etc. etc.) they can't be enforced and they can't be collected by companies operating in Europe or on European citizens' data. It's a big difference IMO.