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plausible deniability is usually the biggest reason. "The group was first identified in 2014 when it was backing pro-Russian separatists in the conflict in eas

by treme 5y ago

plausible deniability is usually the biggest reason. "The group was first identified in 2014 when it was backing pro-Russian separatists in the conflict in eastern Ukraine." Same reason Russia didn't send their uniformed troops into Ukraine.

baybal2 5y ago
Not so much. It was glaringly obvious who these people were from day 1. The idea here is not obvious to a person living in the free world: it is to prevent your "scary, and mighty" standing army shown as weak, and losing in case it got stomped. Seeing the "tzar's army" being weak will inevitably invite a challenge to his power.
- datameta 5y ago
  On some level it is also a huge insult from Russia by leaving just enough bread crumbs, intentionally or not, to essentially say "look, we're doing this and getting away with it; else we're not doing it". And it is part of their strategy for both cases to be equally plausible rather than to be overwhelmingly without blame. It is disinformation-as-policy to bolster their political might without flexing their full military. The finest example of Hypernormalization. Embarrassed that their government represents people of my heritage. Путин просто хуйло.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  > Not so much. It was glaringly obvious who these people were from day 1. That doesn't really matter, though. The thin veneer lets them use their veto in the Security Council, and probably gets China to do so as well. Same scenario as OJ Simpson publishing the "(if) I did it" book. Everyone knows what's going on. No one can do anything about it.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  I think it's more than that. If the Russian army gets a bunch of casualties, eventually the Russian population gets unhappy and starts questioning the leadership. (This happened in Afghanistan, for instance.) But if Wagner does it, then the Russian government doesn't have to take the heat for the number of Russians dead.
  - baybal2 5y ago
    Exactly, but here it's an even bigger twist about a palace coup would the standing army lose, and produce more disgruntled soldiers, and officers.
  - osacial 5y ago
    There were plenty of Russian soldier deaths and no one can care about those questions - the best that Russians can do in these situations is standing on their knees when facing their leadership and accept their mistakes as some deeper maneuver that will bring fruits in the future. Also, the answer to those questions of unhappy population has been given already - "It sunk". The reason why Wagner exists is quite simple - primarily it vents out all the people who has not found their place in Russia(and prevents their use against those who are in power in Russia) and their main and primary reason to serve in Wagner is being killed in the name of Russia. They are not expected to get back - in Ukraine conflict Wagner people were bombed by Russian army, when they decided to go back. They are expendables from the day they signed up.
raxxorrax 5y ago
I think they wanted people to know exactly who they are. Not only for the separatists themselves. But of course, the country gets a free card to deny involvement.
ymolodtsov 5y ago
They were uniformed except for the flags on their arms and armor.

by treme 5y ago

baybal2 5y ago

Not so much. It was glaringly obvious who these people were from day 1. The idea here is not obvious to a person living in the free world: it is to prevent your "scary, and mighty" standing army shown as weak, and losing in case it got stomped. Seeing the "tzar's army" being weak will inevitably invite a challenge to his power.

datameta 5y ago
On some level it is also a huge insult from Russia by leaving just enough bread crumbs, intentionally or not, to essentially say "look, we're doing this and getting away with it; else we're not doing it". And it is part of their strategy for both cases to be equally plausible rather than to be overwhelmingly without blame. It is disinformation-as-policy to bolster their political might without flexing their full military. The finest example of Hypernormalization. Embarrassed that their government represents people of my heritage. Путин просто хуйло.
ceejayoz 5y ago
> Not so much. It was glaringly obvious who these people were from day 1. That doesn't really matter, though. The thin veneer lets them use their veto in the Security Council, and probably gets China to do so as well. Same scenario as OJ Simpson publishing the "(if) I did it" book. Everyone knows what's going on. No one can do anything about it.
AnimalMuppet 5y ago
I think it's more than that. If the Russian army gets a bunch of casualties, eventually the Russian population gets unhappy and starts questioning the leadership. (This happened in Afghanistan, for instance.) But if Wagner does it, then the Russian government doesn't have to take the heat for the number of Russians dead.
- baybal2 5y ago
  Exactly, but here it's an even bigger twist about a palace coup would the standing army lose, and produce more disgruntled soldiers, and officers.
- osacial 5y ago
  There were plenty of Russian soldier deaths and no one can care about those questions - the best that Russians can do in these situations is standing on their knees when facing their leadership and accept their mistakes as some deeper maneuver that will bring fruits in the future. Also, the answer to those questions of unhappy population has been given already - "It sunk". The reason why Wagner exists is quite simple - primarily it vents out all the people who has not found their place in Russia(and prevents their use against those who are in power in Russia) and their main and primary reason to serve in Wagner is being killed in the name of Russia. They are not expected to get back - in Ukraine conflict Wagner people were bombed by Russian army, when they decided to go back. They are expendables from the day they signed up.

raxxorrax 5y ago

I think they wanted people to know exactly who they are. Not only for the separatists themselves. But of course, the country gets a free card to deny involvement.

ymolodtsov 5y ago

They were uniformed except for the flags on their arms and armor.