3 ms·

> No one removed digital privacy in EU. Digital privacy is demonstrably being eroded on many fronts, all over the world. The EU currently has tenuous protectio

by ud_0 5y ago

> No one removed digital privacy in EU. Digital privacy is demonstrably being eroded on many fronts, all over the world. The EU currently has tenuous protections that are in danger of being superceded by concerns that are perceived as higher precedence. The article does seem to be doing a reasonable job of highlighting one such process and sets it in context with the bigger issue. > The pirate party is desperate for attention among EU electors, it only has a total of 4 members [...] Just because a political opinion has almost no supporters doesn't mean it's wrong. Historically, privacy alarmists got it right more often than not. None of the scenarios outlined in the article seem particularly over the top to me. > Moreover: data retention is Breyer's pet peeve, he built a career around it so he obviously talk constantly about it. I don't know this person, if you say they're untrustworthy I'll take your word for it. But being against data retention seems a reasonably stance in my opinion. > If some of you here ever spent time in the environment of the EU elected representatives, you'd know how much each of them the lobby for their agenda, all the time, non-stop. I'm not sure what to make of this sentence. I have no doubt that EU officials are lobbying for their agendas. But the debacle behind the upload filter / copyright directives has shown to me that those agendas either don't include digital rights (in which case they apparently default to deferring to industry lobbyists) or their agendas are not particularly well aligned with citizens' interests.

peoplefromibiza 5y ago
> Digital privacy is demonstrably being eroded on many fronts, all over the world This is not the case though. This case is EU against tech giants not wanting strict laws around data manipulation. They have been subjected to the law in Europe, which is a fundamental right for us Europeans. I know people here are against public intervention, but we generally trust the public in EU, more than Google or Apple for sure. > if you say they're untrustworthy I'll take your word for it. I'm not saying they are untrustworthy, on the contrary, they are to be trusted, but sometimes they shoot to the moon. > I have no doubt that EU officials are lobbying for their agendas I mean that if you read the personal website of an EU representative whose entire career revolves around data retention, you will only find his/her radical opinion on the matter, because it's their job to present it. Even if you go out and have a drink with them, they won't stop talking about it (it happened to me personally many times). They do it constantly.
- still_grokking 5y ago
  > Even if you go out and have a drink with them, they won't stop talking about it (it happened to me personally many times). Are you an lobbyist than? I can't imagine any other reason Breyer would talk personally to someone with our opinions while having a drink together. > > Digital privacy is demonstrably being eroded on many fronts, all over the world > This is not the case though. Quite a distorted view on reality given all the surveillance laws passed over the last few years… It feels by now as there would be new attacks on peoples freedom form the government almost on a daily base. Enjoy the a look at the tip of the iceberg: https://www.statewatch.org/observatories/ https://www.statewatch.org/observatories/
  - peoplefromibiza 5y ago
    > Are you an lobbyist than? I can't imagine any other reason Breyer would talk personally to someone with our opinions while having a drink together. No, I lived in Bruseels for a while with my girlfriend at the time that worked for the parliament. Brussels is a small city and elected representatives are humans, just like us, they go out just like the rest of us. I was shocked too when I realized they can't stop talking about their job, not even for a second. > Quite a distorted view on reality given all the surveillance laws passed over the last few years… Specifically, which one? In Europe I mean. I'm familiar with statewatch, they are a reliable source, but they treat civil liberties as an absolute value, a parliament represent every possible political opinion that the people elected, they have different jobs and represent different interests. Democracy is not the same thing as "the perfect place where nothing we disagree with ever happens". As a term of comparison: do you think people are more surveilled in Europe or in the United States? (just mentioning the two champions of liberal democracy, even countries like Japan are worse put than these 2 in terms of state surveillance.)
    - still_grokking 5y ago
      > > Are you an lobbyist than? > No, […] So why are you talking like a typical right-wing lobbyist? > > Quite a distorted view on reality given all the surveillance laws passed over the last few years… > Specifically, which one? > In Europe I mean. > I'm familiar with statewatch, they are a reliable source, but […] Anybody having a look at the statewatch website will instantly notice that your question doesn't makes any sense given that we're counting the latest surveillance laws by the dozens (maybe even by the hundreds by now), and that your claim to know the website seems dishonest therefore. Also you're trying to relativize that source by all what follows that "but"… > As a term of comparison: do you think people are more surveilled in Europe or in the United States? Why do you try to derail this conversation? I'm surely not baiting into whataboutism… https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque The rest of that question is even loaded with a whole battalion of subtle attempts to completely derail that thread. Nice rhetoric for someone who's not professional in that field. ;-)

by ud_0 5y ago

peoplefromibiza 5y ago

> Digital privacy is demonstrably being eroded on many fronts, all over the world This is not the case though. This case is EU against tech giants not wanting strict laws around data manipulation. They have been subjected to the law in Europe, which is a fundamental right for us Europeans. I know people here are against public intervention, but we generally trust the public in EU, more than Google or Apple for sure. > if you say they're untrustworthy I'll take your word for it. I'm not saying they are untrustworthy, on the contrary, they are to be trusted, but sometimes they shoot to the moon. > I have no doubt that EU officials are lobbying for their agendas I mean that if you read the personal website of an EU representative whose entire career revolves around data retention, you will only find his/her radical opinion on the matter, because it's their job to present it. Even if you go out and have a drink with them, they won't stop talking about it (it happened to me personally many times). They do it constantly.

still_grokking 5y ago
> Even if you go out and have a drink with them, they won't stop talking about it (it happened to me personally many times). Are you an lobbyist than? I can't imagine any other reason Breyer would talk personally to someone with our opinions while having a drink together. > > Digital privacy is demonstrably being eroded on many fronts, all over the world > This is not the case though. Quite a distorted view on reality given all the surveillance laws passed over the last few years… It feels by now as there would be new attacks on peoples freedom form the government almost on a daily base. Enjoy the a look at the tip of the iceberg: https://www.statewatch.org/observatories/ https://www.statewatch.org/observatories/
- peoplefromibiza 5y ago
  > Are you an lobbyist than? I can't imagine any other reason Breyer would talk personally to someone with our opinions while having a drink together. No, I lived in Bruseels for a while with my girlfriend at the time that worked for the parliament. Brussels is a small city and elected representatives are humans, just like us, they go out just like the rest of us. I was shocked too when I realized they can't stop talking about their job, not even for a second. > Quite a distorted view on reality given all the surveillance laws passed over the last few years… Specifically, which one? In Europe I mean. I'm familiar with statewatch, they are a reliable source, but they treat civil liberties as an absolute value, a parliament represent every possible political opinion that the people elected, they have different jobs and represent different interests. Democracy is not the same thing as "the perfect place where nothing we disagree with ever happens". As a term of comparison: do you think people are more surveilled in Europe or in the United States? (just mentioning the two champions of liberal democracy, even countries like Japan are worse put than these 2 in terms of state surveillance.)
  - still_grokking 5y ago
    > > Are you an lobbyist than? > No, […] So why are you talking like a typical right-wing lobbyist? > > Quite a distorted view on reality given all the surveillance laws passed over the last few years… > Specifically, which one? > In Europe I mean. > I'm familiar with statewatch, they are a reliable source, but […] Anybody having a look at the statewatch website will instantly notice that your question doesn't makes any sense given that we're counting the latest surveillance laws by the dozens (maybe even by the hundreds by now), and that your claim to know the website seems dishonest therefore. Also you're trying to relativize that source by all what follows that "but"… > As a term of comparison: do you think people are more surveilled in Europe or in the United States? Why do you try to derail this conversation? I'm surely not baiting into whataboutism… https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque The rest of that question is even loaded with a whole battalion of subtle attempts to completely derail that thread. Nice rhetoric for someone who's not professional in that field. ;-)