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To me this just validates that crypto has gone beyond the too big too fail threshold. Bitmex will pay fines similar to a slap on the wrist that any wall street

To me this just validates that crypto has gone beyond the too big too fail threshold. Bitmex will pay fines similar to a slap on the wrist that any wall street firm has paid for bad behavior. Make a few billion doing grey area things, pay a tiny % extortion to regulators.

vmception 5y ago
What do you prefer to happen? They get curb stomped to oblivion leaving less options in the marketplace? This is something US regulators weigh so I was wondering if you do too.
- idiotsecant 5y ago
  Yes, in a just universe BitMEX would be stomped into nonexistence, just not for this. They have consistently been by far the shadiest and scummiest 'exchange' around.
  - gruez 5y ago
    >They have consistently been by far the shadiest and scummiest 'exchange' around. Can you provide some context for people who's not in the loop?
    - jondwillis 5y ago
      Given how bad some of these centralized exchanges have been over the years, I can't imagine this is true. 1. Africrypt - 3.6B USD, founders disappeared (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-23/s-african-brothers-vanish-and-so-does-3-6-billion-in-bitcoin https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-23/s-african...) 2. Bitfinex 36% haircut hack (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bitfinex-hacked-hongkong-idUSKCN10I06H https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bitfinex-hacked-hongkong-...) - not to mention being in bed with Tether for a long time. 3. MtGox... the list goes on.
      - dkersten 5y ago
        What has that got to do with BitMEX? The question that was asked was: >> They [BitMEX] have consistently been by far the shadiest and scummiest 'exchange' around. > Can you provide some context for people who's not in the loop? Your examples show some negatives of cryptocurrencies, but none of them have anything to do with BitMEX and therefore don't answer the question asked.
        gruez 5y ago
        I think his point is that given that other exchanges have done much worse (eg. running away with customers' funds, customers getting 36% haircut), the fact that bitmex hasn't done those things (presumably, I haven't been keeping up to date) means that they can't be the scummiest.
        dkersten 5y ago
        Oh, I see. The other exchanges were much worse so BitMEX couldn't be shadiest and scummiest around. I stand corrected.
    - ac29 5y ago
      BitMEX have been accused of trading against their own, often leveraged, customers to manipulate prices unfavorably and liquidate them.
      - gruez 5y ago
        How well supported are these accusations? Without additional evidence it's hard to tell whether these accusations are because of disgruntled traders who made bad trades, or actual malfeasance by bitmex. For instance, if they were really "manipulating prices unfavorably", you'd expect their mark price to deviate drastically from other exchanges. Is there evidence of this happening?
      - fighterpilot 5y ago
        What evidence is there of this? They have a separate trading desk who market make their illiquid products that nobody wants to trade. But the claim you made sounds like fake news from social media.
  - zelly 5y ago
    Nah, they are by far the most honest. I would rather trust shitmex than the CME.
- gizmo686 5y ago
  Isn't that the definition of too big to fail?
- realce 5y ago
  Yes.
jkhdigital 5y ago
This isn’t “bad behavior” like actually providing banking services to drug cartels and criminal gangs, like HSBC did. BitMEX basically committed a victimless process crime, and the gubmint wants a bribe. Edit: Downvoting doesn’t make me less right
- nullc 5y ago
  > actually providing banking services to drug cartels and criminal gangs I don't get that allegation. My understanding is that Bitmex is effectively a cryptocurrency casino. You can only deposit and withdraw Bitcoin. After depositing you could make bets on the price of various things against the house, then withdraw your winning or losses. It's not like banking services, nor is it like an exchange-- you couldn't deposit Bitcoin and withdraw a different cryptocurrency or US dollars.
  - jkhdigital 5y ago
    I... agree with you? I said that HSBC, a "regulated" banking institution, did those things while BitMEX obviously has not since it is basically a Bitcoin cul-de-sac with no connection to the rest of the economy, virtual or otherwise.
    - nullc 5y ago
      I know it's shocking, but people who agree with you are allowed to reply too. :)
  - gruez 5y ago
    >My understanding is that Bitmex is effectively a cryptocurrency casino. >You can only deposit and withdraw Bitcoin. After depositing you could make bets on the price of various things against the house, then withdraw your winning or losses. I disagree with the "cryptocurrency casino" characterization. Do you think CME is operating a "USD casino" by offering cash-settled futures?
    - pushrax 5y ago

vmception 5y ago

What do you prefer to happen? They get curb stomped to oblivion leaving less options in the marketplace? This is something US regulators weigh so I was wondering if you do too.

idiotsecant 5y ago
Yes, in a just universe BitMEX would be stomped into nonexistence, just not for this. They have consistently been by far the shadiest and scummiest 'exchange' around.
- gruez 5y ago
  >They have consistently been by far the shadiest and scummiest 'exchange' around. Can you provide some context for people who's not in the loop?
  - jondwillis 5y ago
    Given how bad some of these centralized exchanges have been over the years, I can't imagine this is true. 1. Africrypt - 3.6B USD, founders disappeared (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-23/s-african-brothers-vanish-and-so-does-3-6-billion-in-bitcoin https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-23/s-african...) 2. Bitfinex 36% haircut hack (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bitfinex-hacked-hongkong-idUSKCN10I06H https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bitfinex-hacked-hongkong-...) - not to mention being in bed with Tether for a long time. 3. MtGox... the list goes on.
    - dkersten 5y ago
      What has that got to do with BitMEX? The question that was asked was: >> They [BitMEX] have consistently been by far the shadiest and scummiest 'exchange' around. > Can you provide some context for people who's not in the loop? Your examples show some negatives of cryptocurrencies, but none of them have anything to do with BitMEX and therefore don't answer the question asked.
      - gruez 5y ago
        I think his point is that given that other exchanges have done much worse (eg. running away with customers' funds, customers getting 36% haircut), the fact that bitmex hasn't done those things (presumably, I haven't been keeping up to date) means that they can't be the scummiest.
        dkersten 5y ago
        Oh, I see. The other exchanges were much worse so BitMEX couldn't be shadiest and scummiest around. I stand corrected.
  - ac29 5y ago
    BitMEX have been accused of trading against their own, often leveraged, customers to manipulate prices unfavorably and liquidate them.
    - gruez 5y ago
      How well supported are these accusations? Without additional evidence it's hard to tell whether these accusations are because of disgruntled traders who made bad trades, or actual malfeasance by bitmex. For instance, if they were really "manipulating prices unfavorably", you'd expect their mark price to deviate drastically from other exchanges. Is there evidence of this happening?
    - fighterpilot 5y ago
      What evidence is there of this? They have a separate trading desk who market make their illiquid products that nobody wants to trade. But the claim you made sounds like fake news from social media.
- zelly 5y ago
  Nah, they are by far the most honest. I would rather trust shitmex than the CME.
gizmo686 5y ago
Isn't that the definition of too big to fail?
realce 5y ago
Yes.

jkhdigital 5y ago

This isn’t “bad behavior” like actually providing banking services to drug cartels and criminal gangs, like HSBC did. BitMEX basically committed a victimless process crime, and the gubmint wants a bribe. Edit: Downvoting doesn’t make me less right

nullc 5y ago
> actually providing banking services to drug cartels and criminal gangs I don't get that allegation. My understanding is that Bitmex is effectively a cryptocurrency casino. You can only deposit and withdraw Bitcoin. After depositing you could make bets on the price of various things against the house, then withdraw your winning or losses. It's not like banking services, nor is it like an exchange-- you couldn't deposit Bitcoin and withdraw a different cryptocurrency or US dollars.
- jkhdigital 5y ago
  I... agree with you? I said that HSBC, a "regulated" banking institution, did those things while BitMEX obviously has not since it is basically a Bitcoin cul-de-sac with no connection to the rest of the economy, virtual or otherwise.
  - nullc 5y ago
    I know it's shocking, but people who agree with you are allowed to reply too. :)
- gruez 5y ago
  >My understanding is that Bitmex is effectively a cryptocurrency casino. >You can only deposit and withdraw Bitcoin. After depositing you could make bets on the price of various things against the house, then withdraw your winning or losses. I disagree with the "cryptocurrency casino" characterization. Do you think CME is operating a "USD casino" by offering cash-settled futures?
  - pushrax 5y ago