3 ms·

> What are my options Vote with your feet.

johnnyApplePRNG 5y ago
Trust me, I've considered it! I've got a large family and a massive network of friends here in Ontario, however. I grew up here, I can't move. I've considered getting dual citizenship in another country, but that isn't exactly cheap or problem free either. And I don't think the estonia e-residency is enough to satisfy regulators/crypto-exchanges that are serious about KYC.
- vmception 5y ago
  E-stonia Eresidency is not enough. That just makes it easier to get EU banking. Someone else’s id and rental agreement is though, for this purpose. These are either directly purchasable on a DNM (darknet market), or something you can ask for Woooorst case you need to deep fake live on webcam, this is consumer grade tech even open source now Acquiring and using the ID This might violate laws Anyway. VPN from the expected country all the time, or Tor+RDP (remote desktop) from a compromised computer close to the postal code of the ID which can also be found on an RDP DNM Hacker. News.
  - johnnyApplePRNG 5y ago
    I appreciate the creative thinking, but I would really prefer to do this legally it at all possible.
    - vmception 5y ago
      Ask a friend in another country for the verification info. Or buy a Caribbean citizenship and circumstance that generates a utility bill. (El Salvador has plans for easy crypto entreprenuer citizenship but they might lose international support over authoritarian moves.)
  - zelly 5y ago
    excellent post, sir, but shhhhh
- ur-whale 5y ago
  > I grew up here, I can't move. You don't want to. Not the same thing. It's all about priorities. [edit: not sure why you are being downvoted, your answer is transparent and reasonable ...]
- smabie 5y ago
  Depends how much you want it mate. Btw would love to chat more about your bot, contact info in profile.
- jokethrowaway 5y ago
  Estonia is not going to cut it. I assume they work like your government would for tax purposes and your government can just say it's a Canadian company because you own it and supposedly there is not much more substance in the Estonian company. If you had a director, an office, a few employees, regular board meetings in Estonia that could work. Unfortunately you need trust in this situation. A trusted friend with a company you don't own paying taxes in another country, taking a cut and sending you the profits very frequently would be my choice. I did just that for friends a few times (for tax reasons though), sometimes holding out the money for a long period of time while they moved to more favourable tax jurisdictions. You can setup a contract between his foreign company and your canadian company and send invoices - albeit that won't afford you that much protection if he decides to run away with the money (hence why you want to transfer the money frequently). I wouldn't trust a stranger with this, to avoid getting scammed but there is an entire industry around frontmens and some players should be reputable enough to be trusted.
71a54xd 5y ago
Just incorporate a shell company in the Seychelles - it's basically the only way to go about this. Ironically, it's also one of the only ways to circumvent insane legacy payment provider requirements for industries that require high-risk payments.
- johnnyApplePRNG 5y ago
  So when Bitmex asks for the information of the owners of the corporation, what do I tell them? How do I prove that I am a real person who resides outside of Ontario without committing fraud? ... or actually residing outside of Ontario which would prevent the need for the shell corp in the first place? Unfortunately I don't know anybody well enough who lives outside of any of the banned jurisdictions to trust them with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of crypto currency. If I get caught lying, Bitmex can literally liquidate all of my positions and essentially steal my money. Not sure about the others but I imagine it's the same. They're all trying to save their own skin, they don't care about me at all. Not saying it's a bad idea, I just don't see how it would be any different than the UK corporation I already setup.
  - ur-whale 5y ago
    > So when Bitmex asks for the information of the owners of the corporation, what do I tell them? The key here is the definition of "legal ownership of an entity", which - while most people tend to believe they're identical - is not the same as "actual control of an entity".
    - johnnyApplePRNG 5y ago
      Sorry, what are you suggesting/saying exactly?
      - ur-whale 5y ago
        > Sorry, what are you suggesting/saying exactly? I'm saying that being the legal owner of a company and having actual control of said company are really not the same thing. There are a number of ways to achieve this, all of which are very dependent on your personal context. But to be practical, I'll give you an example: a member of my extended family runs a construction company. For all intents and purposes, he completely controls the company: what it does, what the money generated is used for, etc... However, he does not own it: as seen from the govmt's perspective, his ex-spouse does. For reasons I am not going to get into, he could not own both this construction company and other businesses he controls without running into some issues. What he did: he divorced his wife and through the divorce, he gave her full ownership of the company. The facts that: - they still live as a couple - they love each other - they trust each other with their lives - the wife has zero interest in sticking her nose in the company's business None of the above appear on any book or has any legal standing. There is a reason why so many business names in the Anglo-Saxon world have the word "trust" in them. This is just an example, there are many other avenues.

Trust me, I've considered it! I've got a large family and a massive network of friends here in Ontario, however. I grew up here, I can't move. I've considered getting dual citizenship in another country, but that isn't exactly cheap or problem free either. And I don't think the estonia e-residency is enough to satisfy regulators/crypto-exchanges that are serious about KYC.

vmception 5y ago
E-stonia Eresidency is not enough. That just makes it easier to get EU banking. Someone else’s id and rental agreement is though, for this purpose. These are either directly purchasable on a DNM (darknet market), or something you can ask for Woooorst case you need to deep fake live on webcam, this is consumer grade tech even open source now Acquiring and using the ID This might violate laws Anyway. VPN from the expected country all the time, or Tor+RDP (remote desktop) from a compromised computer close to the postal code of the ID which can also be found on an RDP DNM Hacker. News.
- johnnyApplePRNG 5y ago
  I appreciate the creative thinking, but I would really prefer to do this legally it at all possible.
  - vmception 5y ago
    Ask a friend in another country for the verification info. Or buy a Caribbean citizenship and circumstance that generates a utility bill. (El Salvador has plans for easy crypto entreprenuer citizenship but they might lose international support over authoritarian moves.)
- zelly 5y ago
  excellent post, sir, but shhhhh
ur-whale 5y ago
> I grew up here, I can't move. You don't want to. Not the same thing. It's all about priorities. [edit: not sure why you are being downvoted, your answer is transparent and reasonable ...]
smabie 5y ago
Depends how much you want it mate. Btw would love to chat more about your bot, contact info in profile.
jokethrowaway 5y ago
Estonia is not going to cut it. I assume they work like your government would for tax purposes and your government can just say it's a Canadian company because you own it and supposedly there is not much more substance in the Estonian company. If you had a director, an office, a few employees, regular board meetings in Estonia that could work. Unfortunately you need trust in this situation. A trusted friend with a company you don't own paying taxes in another country, taking a cut and sending you the profits very frequently would be my choice. I did just that for friends a few times (for tax reasons though), sometimes holding out the money for a long period of time while they moved to more favourable tax jurisdictions. You can setup a contract between his foreign company and your canadian company and send invoices - albeit that won't afford you that much protection if he decides to run away with the money (hence why you want to transfer the money frequently). I wouldn't trust a stranger with this, to avoid getting scammed but there is an entire industry around frontmens and some players should be reputable enough to be trusted.

71a54xd 5y ago

Just incorporate a shell company in the Seychelles - it's basically the only way to go about this. Ironically, it's also one of the only ways to circumvent insane legacy payment provider requirements for industries that require high-risk payments.

johnnyApplePRNG 5y ago
So when Bitmex asks for the information of the owners of the corporation, what do I tell them? How do I prove that I am a real person who resides outside of Ontario without committing fraud? ... or actually residing outside of Ontario which would prevent the need for the shell corp in the first place? Unfortunately I don't know anybody well enough who lives outside of any of the banned jurisdictions to trust them with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of crypto currency. If I get caught lying, Bitmex can literally liquidate all of my positions and essentially steal my money. Not sure about the others but I imagine it's the same. They're all trying to save their own skin, they don't care about me at all. Not saying it's a bad idea, I just don't see how it would be any different than the UK corporation I already setup.
- ur-whale 5y ago
  > So when Bitmex asks for the information of the owners of the corporation, what do I tell them? The key here is the definition of "legal ownership of an entity", which - while most people tend to believe they're identical - is not the same as "actual control of an entity".
  - johnnyApplePRNG 5y ago
    Sorry, what are you suggesting/saying exactly?
    - ur-whale 5y ago
      > Sorry, what are you suggesting/saying exactly? I'm saying that being the legal owner of a company and having actual control of said company are really not the same thing. There are a number of ways to achieve this, all of which are very dependent on your personal context. But to be practical, I'll give you an example: a member of my extended family runs a construction company. For all intents and purposes, he completely controls the company: what it does, what the money generated is used for, etc... However, he does not own it: as seen from the govmt's perspective, his ex-spouse does. For reasons I am not going to get into, he could not own both this construction company and other businesses he controls without running into some issues. What he did: he divorced his wife and through the divorce, he gave her full ownership of the company. The facts that: - they still live as a couple - they love each other - they trust each other with their lives - the wife has zero interest in sticking her nose in the company's business None of the above appear on any book or has any legal standing. There is a reason why so many business names in the Anglo-Saxon world have the word "trust" in them. This is just an example, there are many other avenues.