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Not just privileged extraction, but likely high IQ. The Russian brain teasers are to get smart students excelling. The American system is set up to get the weak

Not just privileged extraction, but likely high IQ. The Russian brain teasers are to get smart students excelling. The American system is set up to get the weak student stumbling to the finish line. The American school system isn’t designed to produce high achievers which is why the high achievers are produced by the parents and not by the schools.

bodge5000 5y ago
I think its the same case for much of the west. Here in the UK, I remember maths being not the greatest but certainly every kid got through with a passable level of competance. Unless you have a very high budget, which usually only private (or public as they're called in the uk, but they're the same thing) schools have, you can't have it both ways where both the weakest students pass and the strongest students excel.
adventured 5y ago
What you're describing isn't the US system of education. The US system is as bifurcated as the various European nations mentioned in this thread. The elite families in the US do not send their kids to the same (frequently) underperforming schools as the middle class or poor, just as those types of families don't do that in Russia or Romania. > The American school system isn’t designed to produce high achievers Which system are you talking about? There is no unified American school system. Nothing remotely close to that concept exists in the US. It's not possible to generalize so broadly. There are many different education systems in the US, varying based on where you live (varying dramatically from one state or city to the next even) and or what your economic capabilities are. Your description, if we were to attempt to utilize it, applies primarily to bottom 1/2 to 2/3 of society, not the top 1/3. An obvious example would be elite private schools in and around Washington DC. The Washington DC region simultaneously has many of the richest zip codes in the US, and vast tracts of poverty and many horrible public schools. Washington DC, broadly, presents one of the starker examples of the US bifurcation in nearly all things socioeconomic.
- handrous 5y ago
  > The US system is as bifurcated as the various European nations mentioned in this thread. The elite families in the US do not send their kids to the same (frequently) underperforming schools as the middle class or poor, just as those types of families don't do that in Russia or Romania. To illustrate the point: the only Presidential candidate from one of the two major parties, since and including the 2000 election, not to have attended a private prep school, was Hillary Clinton.
- foobarian 5y ago
  Any idea how to figure out which camp a particular school is? There are wealthy zip codes with excellent public schools, but there are also crappy private schools so the public/private distinction is not always telling. Scores also don't work because they test dumb rote learning and have become gamed. I would love to find a school where teachers are the kind who know math/other subject "intuition" behind the knowledge like they had in some Soviet schools.
confidantlake 5y ago
Absolutely this. My father was an immigrant from an eastern block country. Just a regular family, his father was a salesman, his mother a secretary. Father was valedictorian of his high school, speaks 6 languages, ect. Scraped together enough money to study at a British grad school, finished in 1 year as valedictorian. Then he immigrated to America. So someone looking at his math achievements might think wow, they really teach those soviet immigrants math well! But it was more like the best of the best immigrate while someone more average like me would be stuck in the old country.

bodge5000 5y ago

I think its the same case for much of the west. Here in the UK, I remember maths being not the greatest but certainly every kid got through with a passable level of competance. Unless you have a very high budget, which usually only private (or public as they're called in the uk, but they're the same thing) schools have, you can't have it both ways where both the weakest students pass and the strongest students excel.

adventured 5y ago

What you're describing isn't the US system of education. The US system is as bifurcated as the various European nations mentioned in this thread. The elite families in the US do not send their kids to the same (frequently) underperforming schools as the middle class or poor, just as those types of families don't do that in Russia or Romania. > The American school system isn’t designed to produce high achievers Which system are you talking about? There is no unified American school system. Nothing remotely close to that concept exists in the US. It's not possible to generalize so broadly. There are many different education systems in the US, varying based on where you live (varying dramatically from one state or city to the next even) and or what your economic capabilities are. Your description, if we were to attempt to utilize it, applies primarily to bottom 1/2 to 2/3 of society, not the top 1/3. An obvious example would be elite private schools in and around Washington DC. The Washington DC region simultaneously has many of the richest zip codes in the US, and vast tracts of poverty and many horrible public schools. Washington DC, broadly, presents one of the starker examples of the US bifurcation in nearly all things socioeconomic.

handrous 5y ago
> The US system is as bifurcated as the various European nations mentioned in this thread. The elite families in the US do not send their kids to the same (frequently) underperforming schools as the middle class or poor, just as those types of families don't do that in Russia or Romania. To illustrate the point: the only Presidential candidate from one of the two major parties, since and including the 2000 election, not to have attended a private prep school, was Hillary Clinton.
foobarian 5y ago
Any idea how to figure out which camp a particular school is? There are wealthy zip codes with excellent public schools, but there are also crappy private schools so the public/private distinction is not always telling. Scores also don't work because they test dumb rote learning and have become gamed. I would love to find a school where teachers are the kind who know math/other subject "intuition" behind the knowledge like they had in some Soviet schools.

confidantlake 5y ago

Absolutely this. My father was an immigrant from an eastern block country. Just a regular family, his father was a salesman, his mother a secretary. Father was valedictorian of his high school, speaks 6 languages, ect. Scraped together enough money to study at a British grad school, finished in 1 year as valedictorian. Then he immigrated to America. So someone looking at his math achievements might think wow, they really teach those soviet immigrants math well! But it was more like the best of the best immigrate while someone more average like me would be stuck in the old country.