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What's happened in Canada, is that curriculum is designed to teach to the weakest student in a subject. This is thought of as being fair, of helping, for of co

What's happened in Canada, is that curriculum is designed to teach to the weakest student in a subject. This is thought of as being fair, of helping, for of course everyone is intellectually equal. Thus, those who can accel, are denied their future, for those which will leave high school, and never touch (for example) advanced math again. Equality comes from recognising our differences, and enabling best outcomes for all. Not pretending we are all identical. Sadly, this seems lost on many.

spoonjim 5y ago
Bam. That’s why my kids (of very different academic prowess) are in (two very different) private schools.
Dah00n 5y ago
Yes, exactly this. The amount of children who lost interest in a topic because of systems like this must be high. I clearly remember how I thought maths was way too easy and eventually I lost interest. Sadly I was lazy so I didn't do anything to use my skills (though one could argue it isn't the job of the child) and ended up not doing all my homework and just making up the answer on the spot when called to the blackboard, so today I'm very average which I guess is a success in the eyes of the system.
inglor_cz 5y ago
It is kinda ironic that the former Soviet Bloc, whose central ideology was built around equality, had a very streamed education system concentrated on recognizing talented individuals early, while the Anglosphere, usually renowned for its ceaseless competition, emphasizes equality at the cost of excellence now.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  Well, it's only ironic because this is a bit of a simplification. Their ideology always recognized inequality of ability and comparative advantages of various individuals. The issue, at least on a theoretic level, receiving more value and power because you happened to own something (capital) instead of because you produced more or produced things that few people could produce. Which is why compensation was always unequal and often based on production.
- AzzieElbab 5y ago
  Equality was non existent in the Soviet Union. Technically a talented researcher would earn just as much a factory worker but the researcher would have access to apparatus granted privileges like living in a better apartment, occasionally shopping in an non empty store, access to better hospitals, and so on
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    Researchers and scientists were actually often simply paid more.
    - AzzieElbab 5y ago
      Does it matter how much money you have when you walk into an empty store?
      - sudosysgen 5y ago
        Yes, because not all stores were empty, because you could buy products that were expensive and exchange them, and because of the black market.
II2II 5y ago
> What's happened in Canada, is that curriculum is designed to teach to the weakest student in a subject. No, the curriculum is not watered down to meet the needs of the weakest students. Canada tends to align its curriculum to that of other western nations. On the other hand, when you're talking about math there is a bit of an issue where the background of teachers is mixed at the elementary level and students are not guaranteed to have a true specialist teacher until grade 10. That isn't to say that specialist teachers are the best teachers, but it is a bit disconcerting when a teachers college offers classes for math-phobic elementary teacher candidates (particularly since those grade levels seem to be where many children develop their attitudes towards math). It is also worth noting that the quality of teachers varies based upon region and schools, largely because teachers have a lot of choice as to where they teach.
- bbarnett 5y ago
  Maybe your province isn't too bad yet, but these things tend to spread: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-school-board-cuts-honours-program-1.6068578 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-sc... With no advanced/honours tract, you have two choices. Subjects too difficult for a large portion of the class, or everyone gets education tailored to the least capable students. Clearly, they aren't removing advanced classes, then suddenly failing 1/2 the class...
  - __turbobrew__ 5y ago
    As someone thinking of raising kids in Vancouver I was really disappointed by the honours stream being removed from VSB curriculum. If the school board truly wanted equality for their students they should be looking at external factors of why kids are not performing: do they have a place at home to complete homework? Do their parents value education? Do they believe in themselves? I do believe that there is a natural difference in intelligence, but not enough to make the difference of a student getting into the honours stream or not. A lot of the kids say “I don’t get math” or “I’m just dumb” or they don’t have a stable household or family role models of success — all of which hold them back. Naturally these external problems are much harder for school boards to tackle so they would rather chop the legs off of honours students than address the students who come from a disadvantaged background.
pbhjpbhj 5y ago
My second child is suffering this in a UK school - the maths is too easy, his primary school had an 'advanced' group (quotes because it wasn't really advanced, didn't go as far as I did at primary school in normal class) to push the most able kids a bit. Now high-school they're back to doing absolutely remedial basics of arithmetic. So much wasted time in school, he's frustrated not to make progress and bored with 'maths' (truly it's lack of maths, but to the young mind that gets confused with the subject and then you lose them).

spoonjim 5y ago

Bam. That’s why my kids (of very different academic prowess) are in (two very different) private schools.

Dah00n 5y ago

Yes, exactly this. The amount of children who lost interest in a topic because of systems like this must be high. I clearly remember how I thought maths was way too easy and eventually I lost interest. Sadly I was lazy so I didn't do anything to use my skills (though one could argue it isn't the job of the child) and ended up not doing all my homework and just making up the answer on the spot when called to the blackboard, so today I'm very average which I guess is a success in the eyes of the system.

inglor_cz 5y ago

It is kinda ironic that the former Soviet Bloc, whose central ideology was built around equality, had a very streamed education system concentrated on recognizing talented individuals early, while the Anglosphere, usually renowned for its ceaseless competition, emphasizes equality at the cost of excellence now.

sudosysgen 5y ago
Well, it's only ironic because this is a bit of a simplification. Their ideology always recognized inequality of ability and comparative advantages of various individuals. The issue, at least on a theoretic level, receiving more value and power because you happened to own something (capital) instead of because you produced more or produced things that few people could produce. Which is why compensation was always unequal and often based on production.
AzzieElbab 5y ago
Equality was non existent in the Soviet Union. Technically a talented researcher would earn just as much a factory worker but the researcher would have access to apparatus granted privileges like living in a better apartment, occasionally shopping in an non empty store, access to better hospitals, and so on
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  Researchers and scientists were actually often simply paid more.
  - AzzieElbab 5y ago
    Does it matter how much money you have when you walk into an empty store?
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      Yes, because not all stores were empty, because you could buy products that were expensive and exchange them, and because of the black market.

II2II 5y ago

> What's happened in Canada, is that curriculum is designed to teach to the weakest student in a subject. No, the curriculum is not watered down to meet the needs of the weakest students. Canada tends to align its curriculum to that of other western nations. On the other hand, when you're talking about math there is a bit of an issue where the background of teachers is mixed at the elementary level and students are not guaranteed to have a true specialist teacher until grade 10. That isn't to say that specialist teachers are the best teachers, but it is a bit disconcerting when a teachers college offers classes for math-phobic elementary teacher candidates (particularly since those grade levels seem to be where many children develop their attitudes towards math). It is also worth noting that the quality of teachers varies based upon region and schools, largely because teachers have a lot of choice as to where they teach.

bbarnett 5y ago
Maybe your province isn't too bad yet, but these things tend to spread: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-school-board-cuts-honours-program-1.6068578 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-sc... With no advanced/honours tract, you have two choices. Subjects too difficult for a large portion of the class, or everyone gets education tailored to the least capable students. Clearly, they aren't removing advanced classes, then suddenly failing 1/2 the class...
- __turbobrew__ 5y ago
  As someone thinking of raising kids in Vancouver I was really disappointed by the honours stream being removed from VSB curriculum. If the school board truly wanted equality for their students they should be looking at external factors of why kids are not performing: do they have a place at home to complete homework? Do their parents value education? Do they believe in themselves? I do believe that there is a natural difference in intelligence, but not enough to make the difference of a student getting into the honours stream or not. A lot of the kids say “I don’t get math” or “I’m just dumb” or they don’t have a stable household or family role models of success — all of which hold them back. Naturally these external problems are much harder for school boards to tackle so they would rather chop the legs off of honours students than address the students who come from a disadvantaged background.

pbhjpbhj 5y ago

My second child is suffering this in a UK school - the maths is too easy, his primary school had an 'advanced' group (quotes because it wasn't really advanced, didn't go as far as I did at primary school in normal class) to push the most able kids a bit. Now high-school they're back to doing absolutely remedial basics of arithmetic. So much wasted time in school, he's frustrated not to make progress and bored with 'maths' (truly it's lack of maths, but to the young mind that gets confused with the subject and then you lose them).