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Yes but, effectively, the end result is the same without violating users' privacy. If none of what's on their device matches the hashes, then nothing will have

Yes but, effectively, the end result is the same without violating users' privacy. If none of what's on their device matches the hashes, then nothing will have been done and Apple would be able to encrypt those backups also which would invalidate the whole 2nd part of your complaint.

nullc 5y ago
Or they could just not invade the users privacy, encrypt the backups, and have no access to the user's data.
- dpkonofa 5y ago
  They're not invading the users' privacy. They have to comply with a lawful government order. This is allowing them to do that without violating users' privacy.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    They could make themselves unable to access any data and still comply with lawful orders. There's no rule that you have to preemptively design systems to make data extraction easier. This planned system means less violation of privacy in cases where a warrant exists, and more violation of privacy where there is no warrant. That's not exactly an amazing tradeoff.
    - dpkonofa 5y ago
      I don’t follow. This system is exactly what you’re describing. Apple is not able to access any of your data. The most they get access to is the signature of the file (which would already be matched with known CSAM content) and a potential thumbnail of the CSAM content.
      - Dylan16807 5y ago
        I feel like it should be obvious that I'm describing a system where they don't add this code. And depending on what's in the database, signatures and thumbnails can be really bad.
  - nullc 5y ago
    Apple has not been ordered by the government to scan user's images. Because the scanning is happening without a warrant, if the government compelled apple to perform the search the search would be illegal. It is only legal for Apple to perform this search because it is in no way compelled by the government. The government cannot obtain a blanket warrant against everyone. This kind of dragnet scanning has to be voluntarily performed by a private party for it to be lawful. By all means! please prove to us that the government secretly has ordered Apple and other companies to scan users private data: If you do so it will result in overturning tons of convictions due to the unlawful searches which were concealed due perjury by the government and tech companies who have consistently claimed that the scanning by the tech companies is completely voluntary in in their own self interest.

nullc 5y ago

Or they could just not invade the users privacy, encrypt the backups, and have no access to the user's data.

dpkonofa 5y ago
They're not invading the users' privacy. They have to comply with a lawful government order. This is allowing them to do that without violating users' privacy.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  They could make themselves unable to access any data and still comply with lawful orders. There's no rule that you have to preemptively design systems to make data extraction easier. This planned system means less violation of privacy in cases where a warrant exists, and more violation of privacy where there is no warrant. That's not exactly an amazing tradeoff.
  - dpkonofa 5y ago
    I don’t follow. This system is exactly what you’re describing. Apple is not able to access any of your data. The most they get access to is the signature of the file (which would already be matched with known CSAM content) and a potential thumbnail of the CSAM content.
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      I feel like it should be obvious that I'm describing a system where they don't add this code. And depending on what's in the database, signatures and thumbnails can be really bad.
- nullc 5y ago
  Apple has not been ordered by the government to scan user's images. Because the scanning is happening without a warrant, if the government compelled apple to perform the search the search would be illegal. It is only legal for Apple to perform this search because it is in no way compelled by the government. The government cannot obtain a blanket warrant against everyone. This kind of dragnet scanning has to be voluntarily performed by a private party for it to be lawful. By all means! please prove to us that the government secretly has ordered Apple and other companies to scan users private data: If you do so it will result in overturning tons of convictions due to the unlawful searches which were concealed due perjury by the government and tech companies who have consistently claimed that the scanning by the tech companies is completely voluntary in in their own self interest.