5 ms·

There's like three major options if you want to run a FOSS smartphone, and I'll sum them up. Pinephone: Cheap. The device isn't very powerful. With people comi

by Fnoord 5y ago

There's like three major options if you want to run a FOSS smartphone, and I'll sum them up. Pinephone: Cheap. The device isn't very powerful. With people coming from an Apple device, that's a problem. Fairphone 3: Fair. The hardware isn't very powerful either, and the device is more expensive, but the product is better for the people who assembled it and the environment. Librem 5: Open. Even more expensive than Fairphone, but the hardware features killswitches, and there's no binary blobs. Lacks the fair advantages Fairphone has. Each of these can run a myriad of FOSS OSes from a deGoogled Android (ASOP-based fork) such as /e/ or Ubuntu or Debian/Arch/Ubuntu mobile versions or SFOS (Sailfish) community version (without Android emulation layer!), and each hardware and software has their pros/cons. I use a Fairphone 3 with stock firmware with a Pinephone as back-up phone (and have to use a Samsung flagship device for work). Previously I used a Fairphone 2 with LineageOS + microG (kind of like predecessor of /e/ before that took off). PS: On the gaming side, I'm getting a Steam Deck. Its a bang for the buck compared to Aya Neo/Nintendo Switch/gaming smartphones). No, it isn't open hardware, but the device runs Linux and you get root on it, plus all the reviews (including Linus Tech Tips) are positive.

hutzlibu 5y ago
"Fairphone" It is nice the the fairphone trys to be nice and fair, but I would rather have a focus of a actual open phone under my control and they do not deliver this (not to blame them, the issue is hard). Fixing the global exploitive economy is a different issue and trying to solve everything at once is not working usually. "Librem 5" How useful is a microphone killswitch, if there is no killswitch for the speakers, that can be used as a microphone, too? And it would be news to me, that it is now completely free of binary blobs and their claims always felt a little bit dishonest to me. I recently read a interview by the former CTO that confirms it https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Zlatan-Todoric-Interview https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Zlatan-T... I would go with the Pinephone. For now I have a stupid samsung phone with facebook app preinstalled and unremovable, but have not yet found the time to try lineage with it.
- dylan604 5y ago
  >phone with facebook app preinstalled and unremovable I've never used a phone like this, but are you also forced to provide FB credentials during initial setup? If not, then is the FB app just being installed a privacy threat if it is never used? Is it still accessing information on the phone without being tied directly to you?
  - npongratz 5y ago
    I have had a phone that had a Facebook application preinstalled, and prevented removal of said application. Setting up the phone did not require FB credentials. I would be worried that even without logging into Facebook or giving it my credentials, my FB-ized phone would help FB's efforts in creating and maintaining shadow profiles. As far as I'm concerned, since the FB app is tied into the OS so tightly that it cannot be removed, it poisons the phone and makes it an adversarial surveillance device. This type of poison, of course, is not limited to Facebook.
    - jraph 5y ago
      Deactivating the app is usually possible and is equivalent to uninstalling it on Android. It still takes some room in the system partition but you cannot use it anyway. Unless you root your phone, in which case you can also remove the app entirely. These preinstalled apps are still crap though, I'd rather have a smaller system partition and a bigger user data partition, should I own such a phone.
      - npongratz 5y ago
        This phone was paid for and controlled by the company for whom I worked at the time, so I didn't want to cross the IT overlords and their policies by rooting the phone. Good to know about deactivating apps on Android, though; thank you! I do not remember if I had that option.
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    " Is it still accessing information on the phone without being tied directly to you? " I don't know. I do not have FB. But the fact, that I still have to have the app no matter what I want, illustrates my point, that I really do not own or controll this phone. But it works reliable, was affordable - AND I can remove the batterie. And I do it regulary, because then I can be sure, it is really turned off. Otherwise I kind of assume everything I do with it or around it, is potentially recorded. So yes, I really, really want a phone that I can trust, even if it is turned on.
shadowoflight 5y ago
If one is okay with less-open hardware, the F(x)tec Pro 1 X seems to be a good higher-end smartphone that has a decent camera sensor, slide-out keyboard, AMOLED display, and can be ordered with either Ubuntu Touch or Lineage preinstalled. It's at the top of my if-I-ever-jump-ship-from-Apple list of phones.
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  That sounds quite good too. I like pragmatic approaches.
- Fnoord 5y ago
  Yeah, I'm going for Astro Slide instead. I have used a keyboard similar to F(x)tec in past (the Pro 1 X is just a rebrand, btw) with Nokia N900 and Nokia E71. It simply does not type comfortably on such a keyboard, the keys are too small (there's always a learning curve with regards to layout as it is never 100% standard qwerty). If the Astro wouldn't be available I'm better off with touch type with a second screen as keyboard. Though, do see the Pinephone hardware keyboard link posted elsewhere in this thread. It seems to be akin to the Astro Slide. At least in spirit.
  - shadowoflight 5y ago
    > Astro Slide Oh wow, that's a very interesting option - I like the way that hinge works, but I fear that a mechanical part that complex in a smartphone is likely to become worn out quickly (source: I had both a Moto RAZR and a T-Mobile Sidekick back in the day and both would barely stay closed by the time I upgraded). > the Pro 1 X is just a rebrand This is very interesting to me, would you mind filling me in on what it's a rebrand of?
m4rtink 5y ago
A slight correction about Sailfish OS - the official/commercial Android emulation layer is only available for officially supported Sony Xperia devices, as can be seen in the table on Jolla Shop: https://shop.jolla.com/ https://shop.jolla.com/ I do have Xperia X & Xperia 10 II and can confirm Android emulation layern works very well. You can run Sailfish OS on many other devices thanks to community porting work, but without support for the Jolla provide Android emulation layer. The devices will still run all the many native Sailfish OS apps + ARM compiled flatpaks just fine & the is community work in getting Anbox to run to provide Android emulation on the community ports as well. :)

by Fnoord 5y ago

hutzlibu 5y ago

"Fairphone" It is nice the the fairphone trys to be nice and fair, but I would rather have a focus of a actual open phone under my control and they do not deliver this (not to blame them, the issue is hard). Fixing the global exploitive economy is a different issue and trying to solve everything at once is not working usually. "Librem 5" How useful is a microphone killswitch, if there is no killswitch for the speakers, that can be used as a microphone, too? And it would be news to me, that it is now completely free of binary blobs and their claims always felt a little bit dishonest to me. I recently read a interview by the former CTO that confirms it https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Zlatan-Todoric-Interview https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Zlatan-T... I would go with the Pinephone. For now I have a stupid samsung phone with facebook app preinstalled and unremovable, but have not yet found the time to try lineage with it.

dylan604 5y ago
>phone with facebook app preinstalled and unremovable I've never used a phone like this, but are you also forced to provide FB credentials during initial setup? If not, then is the FB app just being installed a privacy threat if it is never used? Is it still accessing information on the phone without being tied directly to you?
- npongratz 5y ago
  I have had a phone that had a Facebook application preinstalled, and prevented removal of said application. Setting up the phone did not require FB credentials. I would be worried that even without logging into Facebook or giving it my credentials, my FB-ized phone would help FB's efforts in creating and maintaining shadow profiles. As far as I'm concerned, since the FB app is tied into the OS so tightly that it cannot be removed, it poisons the phone and makes it an adversarial surveillance device. This type of poison, of course, is not limited to Facebook.
  - jraph 5y ago
    Deactivating the app is usually possible and is equivalent to uninstalling it on Android. It still takes some room in the system partition but you cannot use it anyway. Unless you root your phone, in which case you can also remove the app entirely. These preinstalled apps are still crap though, I'd rather have a smaller system partition and a bigger user data partition, should I own such a phone.
    - npongratz 5y ago
      This phone was paid for and controlled by the company for whom I worked at the time, so I didn't want to cross the IT overlords and their policies by rooting the phone. Good to know about deactivating apps on Android, though; thank you! I do not remember if I had that option.
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  " Is it still accessing information on the phone without being tied directly to you? " I don't know. I do not have FB. But the fact, that I still have to have the app no matter what I want, illustrates my point, that I really do not own or controll this phone. But it works reliable, was affordable - AND I can remove the batterie. And I do it regulary, because then I can be sure, it is really turned off. Otherwise I kind of assume everything I do with it or around it, is potentially recorded. So yes, I really, really want a phone that I can trust, even if it is turned on.

shadowoflight 5y ago

If one is okay with less-open hardware, the F(x)tec Pro 1 X seems to be a good higher-end smartphone that has a decent camera sensor, slide-out keyboard, AMOLED display, and can be ordered with either Ubuntu Touch or Lineage preinstalled. It's at the top of my if-I-ever-jump-ship-from-Apple list of phones.

hutzlibu 5y ago
That sounds quite good too. I like pragmatic approaches.
Fnoord 5y ago
Yeah, I'm going for Astro Slide instead. I have used a keyboard similar to F(x)tec in past (the Pro 1 X is just a rebrand, btw) with Nokia N900 and Nokia E71. It simply does not type comfortably on such a keyboard, the keys are too small (there's always a learning curve with regards to layout as it is never 100% standard qwerty). If the Astro wouldn't be available I'm better off with touch type with a second screen as keyboard. Though, do see the Pinephone hardware keyboard link posted elsewhere in this thread. It seems to be akin to the Astro Slide. At least in spirit.
- shadowoflight 5y ago
  > Astro Slide Oh wow, that's a very interesting option - I like the way that hinge works, but I fear that a mechanical part that complex in a smartphone is likely to become worn out quickly (source: I had both a Moto RAZR and a T-Mobile Sidekick back in the day and both would barely stay closed by the time I upgraded). > the Pro 1 X is just a rebrand This is very interesting to me, would you mind filling me in on what it's a rebrand of?

m4rtink 5y ago

A slight correction about Sailfish OS - the official/commercial Android emulation layer is only available for officially supported Sony Xperia devices, as can be seen in the table on Jolla Shop: https://shop.jolla.com/ https://shop.jolla.com/ I do have Xperia X & Xperia 10 II and can confirm Android emulation layern works very well. You can run Sailfish OS on many other devices thanks to community porting work, but without support for the Jolla provide Android emulation layer. The devices will still run all the many native Sailfish OS apps + ARM compiled flatpaks just fine & the is community work in getting Anbox to run to provide Android emulation on the community ports as well. :)