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The article title might seem to suggest we have evidence that cavemen were could throw further than our best Olympic athletes... Instead, the article content is

The article title might seem to suggest we have evidence that cavemen were could throw further than our best Olympic athletes... Instead, the article content is bemoaning that we have a standardized javelin that isn't as far-throwing as can be. Thus, the world record javelin toss may never be beaten. Yes, the permanent world record is a little unfortunate. But it has nothing to do with how cavemen would throw. Standards must be made to judge fair competition among participants. Yes, they're a little bit arbitrary - the 100M dash could very well be a 106M dash. But that wouldn't make the athletes 6% more impressive. Likewise, we could improve our javelins every year to get further and further throws. But our global interest isn't on the throw, but the thrower.

thaumasiotes 5y ago
> Yes, the permanent world record is a little unfortunate. Why? The longer you keep records, the less likely it is that you can exceed the previous record. Why would we expect javelin throws to get longer over time?
- coopsmoss 5y ago
  Attainable goals are more motivating and meaningful than unattainable ones. It's in many ways a different event because the equipment is different, so why should a record for a different event stand.
  - compsciphd 5y ago
    there's no reason to not have something that's the "world record" under current rules.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    > It's in many ways a different event because the equipment is different, so why should a record for a different event stand. That's a completely separate concern. Once records are established for the current event, you still expect them to be more or less permanent. Turning in the best performance in all of history is not an attainable goal. You can't expect it to be one.
    - tstrimple 5y ago
      What are you talking about? World records are broken all the time. https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/07/29/olympic-records-are-being-broken-at-a-record-pace https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/07/29/olympic-...
- nvader 5y ago
  Improved nutrition, sports science and innovations in the biomechanics of throwing.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    If you really believe that, the obvious implication is that the current world record isn't permanent after all. Good news!
- renewiltord 5y ago
  The reason for the permanent world record is in the article. The new standardization made the javelin fall 10% short. > in 1986 the International Association of Athletics Federations' technical committee authorized a new javelin design. The center of gravity was moved 1.6 inches forward, the tip was modified to make the javelin less aerodynamic, meaning it would nose down earlier and land sooner, reducing average flight distance by about 10 percent. The permanent WR is unfortunate in that it was engineered. It would be like moving the 100 m to an incline of 12% and calling it the same sport.
londgine 5y ago
swimming technique and bicycle technically have improved a lot and all of the grading sports (gymnastics, diving) are constantly being changed since they were introduced into the Olympics. That is why so many of those records could be beaten. However it looks like Olympic archery does not allow a compound bow. I guess every sport decides if they want innovation or not.
- inasio 5y ago
  There are also (lower) weight limits on bikes, bikes could be significantly lighter (also recumbent)
- sandworm101 5y ago
  Swimming rules have also been progressively eased to help keep the records falling. Flip turns in backstroke. Relay dives. More aggressive dive blocks. The new breaststroke kick. Lots of little thing mean constant trend, constant records dropping.
  - nl 5y ago
    But restrictions on swimsuit material have gone the other way. There were a bunch of records set using non-permeable suits in 2008-2009 that will take year to break again after FINA introduced the "textile material" rule. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LZR_Racer#Marketing_and_results https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LZR_Racer#Marketing_and_result... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arena_X-Glide#Controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arena_X-Glide#Controversy
    - sandworm101 5y ago
      One of perhaps a dozen rules. The one rule that was tightened in a sea of rules being loosened.
      - nl 5y ago
        Restricting underwater distance in butterfly was one that slowed swimmers a lot.
getlawgdon 5y ago
Hohn's throw is not the world record and hasn't been for decades.
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  Because they reset the records to reflect the redesigned javelins. The current world record is ~6 metres less than Hohn's throw...
  - getlawgdon 5y ago
    No, that's not why Hohn's record is not the world record any more than "Hohn is not the current world record holder because he never threw the current implement." Or that "Zelezny never threw the old one." The world record is set according to the latest rules of the sport, and Hohn's throw did not meet the standard by definition. You clearly have no idea what the level of outperformance is of Jan Zelezny's record. It is by some stats evaluations more of an outlier than Bolt's 100m record. For the record, I am a former national-class thrower who has trained with the national record holder and had the opportunity to work a former world record holder on multiple occasions.

thaumasiotes 5y ago

> Yes, the permanent world record is a little unfortunate. Why? The longer you keep records, the less likely it is that you can exceed the previous record. Why would we expect javelin throws to get longer over time?

coopsmoss 5y ago
Attainable goals are more motivating and meaningful than unattainable ones. It's in many ways a different event because the equipment is different, so why should a record for a different event stand.
- compsciphd 5y ago
  there's no reason to not have something that's the "world record" under current rules.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  > It's in many ways a different event because the equipment is different, so why should a record for a different event stand. That's a completely separate concern. Once records are established for the current event, you still expect them to be more or less permanent. Turning in the best performance in all of history is not an attainable goal. You can't expect it to be one.
  - tstrimple 5y ago
    What are you talking about? World records are broken all the time. https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/07/29/olympic-records-are-being-broken-at-a-record-pace https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/07/29/olympic-...
nvader 5y ago
Improved nutrition, sports science and innovations in the biomechanics of throwing.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  If you really believe that, the obvious implication is that the current world record isn't permanent after all. Good news!
renewiltord 5y ago
The reason for the permanent world record is in the article. The new standardization made the javelin fall 10% short. > in 1986 the International Association of Athletics Federations' technical committee authorized a new javelin design. The center of gravity was moved 1.6 inches forward, the tip was modified to make the javelin less aerodynamic, meaning it would nose down earlier and land sooner, reducing average flight distance by about 10 percent. The permanent WR is unfortunate in that it was engineered. It would be like moving the 100 m to an incline of 12% and calling it the same sport.

londgine 5y ago

swimming technique and bicycle technically have improved a lot and all of the grading sports (gymnastics, diving) are constantly being changed since they were introduced into the Olympics. That is why so many of those records could be beaten. However it looks like Olympic archery does not allow a compound bow. I guess every sport decides if they want innovation or not.

inasio 5y ago
There are also (lower) weight limits on bikes, bikes could be significantly lighter (also recumbent)
sandworm101 5y ago
Swimming rules have also been progressively eased to help keep the records falling. Flip turns in backstroke. Relay dives. More aggressive dive blocks. The new breaststroke kick. Lots of little thing mean constant trend, constant records dropping.
- nl 5y ago
  But restrictions on swimsuit material have gone the other way. There were a bunch of records set using non-permeable suits in 2008-2009 that will take year to break again after FINA introduced the "textile material" rule. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LZR_Racer#Marketing_and_results https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LZR_Racer#Marketing_and_result... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arena_X-Glide#Controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arena_X-Glide#Controversy
  - sandworm101 5y ago
    One of perhaps a dozen rules. The one rule that was tightened in a sea of rules being loosened.
    - nl 5y ago
      Restricting underwater distance in butterfly was one that slowed swimmers a lot.

getlawgdon 5y ago

Hohn's throw is not the world record and hasn't been for decades.

Mikeb85 5y ago
Because they reset the records to reflect the redesigned javelins. The current world record is ~6 metres less than Hohn's throw...
- getlawgdon 5y ago
  No, that's not why Hohn's record is not the world record any more than "Hohn is not the current world record holder because he never threw the current implement." Or that "Zelezny never threw the old one." The world record is set according to the latest rules of the sport, and Hohn's throw did not meet the standard by definition. You clearly have no idea what the level of outperformance is of Jan Zelezny's record. It is by some stats evaluations more of an outlier than Bolt's 100m record. For the record, I am a former national-class thrower who has trained with the national record holder and had the opportunity to work a former world record holder on multiple occasions.