7 ms·

If you want a real eye opening experience (or just have a morbid curiosity) - sign up for Democratic/Republican donation lists via a throw away email address an

If you want a real eye opening experience (or just have a morbid curiosity) - sign up for Democratic/Republican donation lists via a throw away email address and read the material you get sent by PACs begging for donations. It's disgustingly manipulative what these organizations do.

kfprt 5y ago
Better yet, if you absolutely want to force someone to abandon their email you can sign them up with donations. Political campaigners are the best harassment money can buy.
kaffee 5y ago
It's not well known that the (US) CAN-SPAM act does not apply to political and religious organizations. They can spam as much as they want. First amendment law is full of surprises.
- kfprt 5y ago
  It's practically the only issue they care about. "Republican congressman Greg Steube asks Google CEO why his campaign emails are going to spam" https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2020/jul/29/republican-congressman-greg-steube-asks-google-ceo-why-his-campaign-emails-are-going-to-spam-video https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2020/jul/29/republi...
  - User23 5y ago
    > Pichai said “there is nothing in the algorithm that has to do with political ideology” That’s an interesting non-denial: he never actually says the spam algorithm isn’t biased against conservatives. There could well be a bias, because many ML systems have unintended biases. Google could easily answer the question. It’d probably take an hour max to write and run the mapreduce or whatever they use now.
    - Retric 5y ago
      The algorithm wouldn’t have a bias vs conservatives because it doesn’t include semantic meaning, but it could have a bias vs methods used by this conservative. Which really just comes down on whoever is generating those emails.
      - kfprt 5y ago
        Politicians of both parties often use the same middlemen. The 'campaigning industry' isn't so much red or blue but green.
        Retric 5y ago
        Often true, but this was a specific case and there are a lot of red or blue focused middlemen.
        therealcamino 5y ago
        What organizations are you thinking of? I'm not an expert in the area, and ones I know of are ActBlue that works only with Democrats, and WinRed which is the Republican clone.
      - klyrs 5y ago
        I don't know if it does or doesn't, but Republicans and Democrats use different keywords, not just semantics. For example, 'law and order', 'police reform', etc. It's certainly possible for ML to pick up a bias in the presence of such differences.
        Retric 5y ago
        They also quote each other, without context it’s just word choice not the message. Considering messages are already tailored to different kinds of voters, spam algorithms are just another part of messaging.
    - nicoburns 5y ago
      I'd be very surprised if democratic party emails don't also frequently get marked as spam. I somehow ended up on their list despite not even living in the US, and it was a complete nightmare to get off of it because the unsubscribe link only worked for a specific campaign. I've marked hundreds of their emails as spam by now, and it's entirely their own fault.
  - novok 5y ago
    Google gmail spam algo is heavily trained by users pressing the spam button. Do spammy things , get marked spam by joe average and do it enough and your emails are marked spam, no explicit action required. It also means that most political email is marked as spam.
    - rconti 5y ago
      I find it to be fairly awful actually. I've noticed over time it's just become what feels like a 5-position slider. I'm hesitant to mark Spam messages as Spam, because I'll immediately start getting a % of legit messages sent to spam. Un mark one of those, and suddenly I'm getting spam again.
- pwg 5y ago
  > It's not well known that the (US) CAN-SPAM act does not apply to political and religious organizations. This is because the politicians in office at the time of writing the "CAN-SPAM" act explicitly wrote in their own exemption for themselves for campaigning purposes. As to why religious orgs. also got included, I don't remember -- one wonders if it was simply to obscure the blatant "we are making ourselves above this law" look for exempting themselves from the law. They (the politicians that time) did the same thing with the "Do Not Call" phone number list, politicians wrote in their own exemption for themselves for campaigning purposes, and then added an exemption for charity orgs. to the law as well.
  - CheezeIt 5y ago
    No, it’s because commercial speech is less protected by the 1st amendment than other kinds.
meepmorp 5y ago
Yep. It's great that whoever in New Anystate's 13th congressional district is taking on Big Whatever, but I have no connection to the person, place, or issue. You may not have money and please go away.
JamilD 5y ago
Relevant article; it focuses on one candidate but the techniques are often universal (albeit at different magnitudes): https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/03/us/politics/trump-donations.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/03/us/politics/trump-donatio...
rtpg 5y ago
What pisses me off the most is that basically none of the dem lists do anything but ask for money. No calls to action/call your senator/etc. Just people trying to get paid. (Contrast to Sanders, who, especially as the pandemic started, often guided people to give money to other causes. But even for his list I feel like there was an opportunity for coordinated action on many things that was lost) What’s the point of coordinated channels of supporters if it’s just to get money? I’m not that interested in subsidizing consulting firms and adtech thank you
- SpicyLemonZest 5y ago
  I would guess it's the other way around, and lists that are just trying to rake in cash are much more likely to get your email because they're more willing to use shady acquisition tactics.
- healsdata 5y ago
  I just searched my gmail for "democrat" and the 2 of the 5 most recent emails had calls to action in them and 4 were asking for donations. This includes the most recent email I have from Joe Biden which had both. All of my elected officials have an official mailing list for constituents which separates out their calls to action on government matters from their fundraising, campaigning, etc. This includes Brian Fitzpatrick, who is a Republican. I prefer it that way so I can unsubscribe from donation requests and still get the other. Seems like you signed up for fundraising mailing lists and then were surprised they were focused on fundraising. Try signing up for the other lists.
  - rtpg 5y ago
    I'm sorry, I don't believe that it's my responsibility to figure this out myself. The campaigns are the ones collecting my info and collecting stuff! Maybe the politicians should be perhaps using their connections to people who gave some money to actually spark mass movements instead of just trying to justify their staff's existence. I didn't go "sign up" for a fundraising email, I donated to a campaign, and then my email got shopped around to a bunch of other fundraising lists. Let's not even get into massive fundraising pushes that happen for absolutely dead-on-arrival campaigns like the kentucky senate race. Just pure money grabs...

kfprt 5y ago

Better yet, if you absolutely want to force someone to abandon their email you can sign them up with donations. Political campaigners are the best harassment money can buy.

kaffee 5y ago

It's not well known that the (US) CAN-SPAM act does not apply to political and religious organizations. They can spam as much as they want. First amendment law is full of surprises.

kfprt 5y ago
It's practically the only issue they care about. "Republican congressman Greg Steube asks Google CEO why his campaign emails are going to spam" https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2020/jul/29/republican-congressman-greg-steube-asks-google-ceo-why-his-campaign-emails-are-going-to-spam-video https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2020/jul/29/republi...
- User23 5y ago
  > Pichai said “there is nothing in the algorithm that has to do with political ideology” That’s an interesting non-denial: he never actually says the spam algorithm isn’t biased against conservatives. There could well be a bias, because many ML systems have unintended biases. Google could easily answer the question. It’d probably take an hour max to write and run the mapreduce or whatever they use now.
  - Retric 5y ago
    The algorithm wouldn’t have a bias vs conservatives because it doesn’t include semantic meaning, but it could have a bias vs methods used by this conservative. Which really just comes down on whoever is generating those emails.
    - kfprt 5y ago
      Politicians of both parties often use the same middlemen. The 'campaigning industry' isn't so much red or blue but green.
      - Retric 5y ago
        Often true, but this was a specific case and there are a lot of red or blue focused middlemen.
      - therealcamino 5y ago
        What organizations are you thinking of? I'm not an expert in the area, and ones I know of are ActBlue that works only with Democrats, and WinRed which is the Republican clone.
    - klyrs 5y ago
      I don't know if it does or doesn't, but Republicans and Democrats use different keywords, not just semantics. For example, 'law and order', 'police reform', etc. It's certainly possible for ML to pick up a bias in the presence of such differences.
      - Retric 5y ago
        They also quote each other, without context it’s just word choice not the message. Considering messages are already tailored to different kinds of voters, spam algorithms are just another part of messaging.
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    I'd be very surprised if democratic party emails don't also frequently get marked as spam. I somehow ended up on their list despite not even living in the US, and it was a complete nightmare to get off of it because the unsubscribe link only worked for a specific campaign. I've marked hundreds of their emails as spam by now, and it's entirely their own fault.
- novok 5y ago
  Google gmail spam algo is heavily trained by users pressing the spam button. Do spammy things , get marked spam by joe average and do it enough and your emails are marked spam, no explicit action required. It also means that most political email is marked as spam.
  - rconti 5y ago
    I find it to be fairly awful actually. I've noticed over time it's just become what feels like a 5-position slider. I'm hesitant to mark Spam messages as Spam, because I'll immediately start getting a % of legit messages sent to spam. Un mark one of those, and suddenly I'm getting spam again.
pwg 5y ago
> It's not well known that the (US) CAN-SPAM act does not apply to political and religious organizations. This is because the politicians in office at the time of writing the "CAN-SPAM" act explicitly wrote in their own exemption for themselves for campaigning purposes. As to why religious orgs. also got included, I don't remember -- one wonders if it was simply to obscure the blatant "we are making ourselves above this law" look for exempting themselves from the law. They (the politicians that time) did the same thing with the "Do Not Call" phone number list, politicians wrote in their own exemption for themselves for campaigning purposes, and then added an exemption for charity orgs. to the law as well.
- CheezeIt 5y ago
  No, it’s because commercial speech is less protected by the 1st amendment than other kinds.

meepmorp 5y ago

Yep. It's great that whoever in New Anystate's 13th congressional district is taking on Big Whatever, but I have no connection to the person, place, or issue. You may not have money and please go away.

JamilD 5y ago

Relevant article; it focuses on one candidate but the techniques are often universal (albeit at different magnitudes): https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/03/us/politics/trump-donations.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/03/us/politics/trump-donatio...

rtpg 5y ago

What pisses me off the most is that basically none of the dem lists do anything but ask for money. No calls to action/call your senator/etc. Just people trying to get paid. (Contrast to Sanders, who, especially as the pandemic started, often guided people to give money to other causes. But even for his list I feel like there was an opportunity for coordinated action on many things that was lost) What’s the point of coordinated channels of supporters if it’s just to get money? I’m not that interested in subsidizing consulting firms and adtech thank you

SpicyLemonZest 5y ago
I would guess it's the other way around, and lists that are just trying to rake in cash are much more likely to get your email because they're more willing to use shady acquisition tactics.
healsdata 5y ago
I just searched my gmail for "democrat" and the 2 of the 5 most recent emails had calls to action in them and 4 were asking for donations. This includes the most recent email I have from Joe Biden which had both. All of my elected officials have an official mailing list for constituents which separates out their calls to action on government matters from their fundraising, campaigning, etc. This includes Brian Fitzpatrick, who is a Republican. I prefer it that way so I can unsubscribe from donation requests and still get the other. Seems like you signed up for fundraising mailing lists and then were surprised they were focused on fundraising. Try signing up for the other lists.
- rtpg 5y ago
  I'm sorry, I don't believe that it's my responsibility to figure this out myself. The campaigns are the ones collecting my info and collecting stuff! Maybe the politicians should be perhaps using their connections to people who gave some money to actually spark mass movements instead of just trying to justify their staff's existence. I didn't go "sign up" for a fundraising email, I donated to a campaign, and then my email got shopped around to a bunch of other fundraising lists. Let's not even get into massive fundraising pushes that happen for absolutely dead-on-arrival campaigns like the kentucky senate race. Just pure money grabs...