10 ms·

When does living your “best single life” backfire?

45 points by elsewhen 5y ago

PaulHoule 5y ago
I am reading ‘Love and Lust’ by Theodore Reik and I wish it had found me 35 years ago. Something happened between 1945 and the present that blew out our culture like the ozone layer. Ordinary approaches don’t work today. I for one read Eric Greene’s ‘art of seduction’ and then got all the references from the library and broke the clip on my gym bag hauling them back to my office. If you are going to get better results than most people you need a fully developed technology of love. It is not something PUAs are really into because it is deeper and takes longer but it is good for forming deep ‘friendships’ and improving how you relate to people. Most ordinary people will see all the references to life in other centuries and think it is obsolete and go back to tinder. They suck. They can’t be saved. You can be different.
- Zababa 5y ago
  I haven't gone really deep into all the PUA stuff, but I share your analysis that they seems to be optimizing for one night stands. Thanks for sharing.
tbihl 5y ago
That thread is fascinating. It's seemingly entirely occupied by people who are very well educated except for a glaring omission on the question of the most important things in their lives. It's well known that women very rarely date/marry below their level, which means an extremely narrow dating pool for these women at the top, not matched by their male peers. The same is simply not true for men. And if you're a man thinking of bucking this trend, you're putting yourself in a pretty risky place. And it must be intensely frustrating for them to find it when they correctly surmise that they're running out of time (for having kids), after no one ever offering this wisdom before they had to suffer the consequences. I'm watching my siblings and my wife's siblings, along with many coworkers, suffer in this way, and it seems agonizing.
- redis_mlc 5y ago
  In evolutionary psychology it's called female "hypergamy", so search for that. If you're a single "modern woman" who can't find or retain "a high value man", then contact Suzanne Venker who will deprogram out the "modern" part. If you're a single, average man, be and look successful first, then consider dating.
- nradov 5y ago
  This Harvard Business Review article advised professionally ambitious women to remain single if they can't find a highly supportive spouse. I don't know if that's good or bad advice, just found it interesting. https://hbr.org/2017/10/if-you-cant-find-a-spouse-who-supports-your-career-stay-single https://hbr.org/2017/10/if-you-cant-find-a-spouse-who-suppor...
  - yuppie_scum 5y ago
    I wouldn’t advise anybody to marry someone unsupportive.
    - avmich 5y ago
      Even if the alternative is not to marry? Does it depends on weights of preferences?
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - MyHypatia 5y ago
        For your health and happiness, it is better not to marry if the marriage is an unhappy one. There have been many studies on how marriage impacts the health of men and women. Happily married people have better health outcomes than single people. Unhappily married people have worse health outcomes. From one of the articles I cite below, "Marital stress is associated with lifestyle risk factors and nonadherence to medical regimens. Poor marital quality is also linked with more depression, hostility and anger, all risk factors for coronary heart disease. Thus, marital status and quality could influence metabolic risk factors and acute stress responses, which in turn predict cardio-vascular morbidity and mortality, according to the study." https://www.health.harvard.edu/mens-health/marriage-and-mens-health https://www.health.harvard.edu/mens-health/marriage-and-mens... https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2003/09/marital-benefit https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2003/09/marital-bene...
livinginfear 5y ago
Readers are placing a large degree of faith in the author's self-assessment. I, and I imagine many others, have known people who are totally oblivious to exactly how repellent their personalities are. The author may be extremely difficult to talk to, or extremely emotionally unstable. They mentioned 'years of therapy' in their post. Most well-balanced people get through their life without requiring 'years of therapy'. The author states that they have no difficulty matching with men on dating apps. This does not count for much: The difficulty doing so between men and women is totally asymmetrical. Men and women really do not seek out the same qualities in one another. This should not be as controversial an assertion as it tends to be in the modern social climate. I feel like the so-called "modern woman" was sold a bill of goods when they were told "What's good for goose is good for gander". This is simply not true. High-status men who have choices available to them in the sexual marketplace will generally choose women embodying more traditional feminine qualities. The author of the post even states as much in a roundabout fashion.
- MyHypatia 5y ago
  >>> I feel like the so-called "modern woman" was sold a bill of goods when they were told "What's good for goose is good for gander". This is simply not true. I think the modern woman has realized that a good marriage is better than being single, but being single is better than a bad marriage. Plenty of health studies have been performed that show this: health outcomes are better for women in a good marriage, and worse for women in a bad marriage [1]. Why trap yourself in a bad marriage if it's going to kill you? [1] https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2003/09/marital-benefit https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2003/09/marital-bene...
  - xupybd 5y ago
    Why give up hope of a good marriage for fear of a bad one?
    - MyHypatia 5y ago
      It's not about giving up hope, it's about recognizing whether a relationship is strong and supportive enough for a good marriage. Or recognizing whether a marriage is actually a source of wellness and support. If it isn't, then both people have to be willing to work to improve it, and as a last resort dissolve the marriage if it is irretrievably broken.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
rektide 5y ago
author sounds like they are dealing with what most good people suffer through: a radical overabundance of non independently spirited normies, bearing limited ambitions, small horizons, & low inherent drive. anyone of character appreciates & can mutually enhance those others of character, even if unalike.

45 points by elsewhen 5y ago

I am reading ‘Love and Lust’ by Theodore Reik and I wish it had found me 35 years ago. Something happened between 1945 and the present that blew out our culture like the ozone layer. Ordinary approaches don’t work today. I for one read Eric Greene’s ‘art of seduction’ and then got all the references from the library and broke the clip on my gym bag hauling them back to my office. If you are going to get better results than most people you need a fully developed technology of love. It is not something PUAs are really into because it is deeper and takes longer but it is good for forming deep ‘friendships’ and improving how you relate to people. Most ordinary people will see all the references to life in other centuries and think it is obsolete and go back to tinder. They suck. They can’t be saved. You can be different.

Zababa 5y ago
I haven't gone really deep into all the PUA stuff, but I share your analysis that they seems to be optimizing for one night stands. Thanks for sharing.

tbihl 5y ago

That thread is fascinating. It's seemingly entirely occupied by people who are very well educated except for a glaring omission on the question of the most important things in their lives. It's well known that women very rarely date/marry below their level, which means an extremely narrow dating pool for these women at the top, not matched by their male peers. The same is simply not true for men. And if you're a man thinking of bucking this trend, you're putting yourself in a pretty risky place. And it must be intensely frustrating for them to find it when they correctly surmise that they're running out of time (for having kids), after no one ever offering this wisdom before they had to suffer the consequences. I'm watching my siblings and my wife's siblings, along with many coworkers, suffer in this way, and it seems agonizing.

redis_mlc 5y ago
In evolutionary psychology it's called female "hypergamy", so search for that. If you're a single "modern woman" who can't find or retain "a high value man", then contact Suzanne Venker who will deprogram out the "modern" part. If you're a single, average man, be and look successful first, then consider dating.
nradov 5y ago
This Harvard Business Review article advised professionally ambitious women to remain single if they can't find a highly supportive spouse. I don't know if that's good or bad advice, just found it interesting. https://hbr.org/2017/10/if-you-cant-find-a-spouse-who-supports-your-career-stay-single https://hbr.org/2017/10/if-you-cant-find-a-spouse-who-suppor...
- yuppie_scum 5y ago
  I wouldn’t advise anybody to marry someone unsupportive.
  - avmich 5y ago
    Even if the alternative is not to marry? Does it depends on weights of preferences?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - MyHypatia 5y ago
      For your health and happiness, it is better not to marry if the marriage is an unhappy one. There have been many studies on how marriage impacts the health of men and women. Happily married people have better health outcomes than single people. Unhappily married people have worse health outcomes. From one of the articles I cite below, "Marital stress is associated with lifestyle risk factors and nonadherence to medical regimens. Poor marital quality is also linked with more depression, hostility and anger, all risk factors for coronary heart disease. Thus, marital status and quality could influence metabolic risk factors and acute stress responses, which in turn predict cardio-vascular morbidity and mortality, according to the study." https://www.health.harvard.edu/mens-health/marriage-and-mens-health https://www.health.harvard.edu/mens-health/marriage-and-mens... https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2003/09/marital-benefit https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2003/09/marital-bene...

livinginfear 5y ago

Readers are placing a large degree of faith in the author's self-assessment. I, and I imagine many others, have known people who are totally oblivious to exactly how repellent their personalities are. The author may be extremely difficult to talk to, or extremely emotionally unstable. They mentioned 'years of therapy' in their post. Most well-balanced people get through their life without requiring 'years of therapy'. The author states that they have no difficulty matching with men on dating apps. This does not count for much: The difficulty doing so between men and women is totally asymmetrical. Men and women really do not seek out the same qualities in one another. This should not be as controversial an assertion as it tends to be in the modern social climate. I feel like the so-called "modern woman" was sold a bill of goods when they were told "What's good for goose is good for gander". This is simply not true. High-status men who have choices available to them in the sexual marketplace will generally choose women embodying more traditional feminine qualities. The author of the post even states as much in a roundabout fashion.

MyHypatia 5y ago
>>> I feel like the so-called "modern woman" was sold a bill of goods when they were told "What's good for goose is good for gander". This is simply not true. I think the modern woman has realized that a good marriage is better than being single, but being single is better than a bad marriage. Plenty of health studies have been performed that show this: health outcomes are better for women in a good marriage, and worse for women in a bad marriage [1]. Why trap yourself in a bad marriage if it's going to kill you? [1] https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2003/09/marital-benefit https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2003/09/marital-bene...
- xupybd 5y ago
  Why give up hope of a good marriage for fear of a bad one?
  - MyHypatia 5y ago
    It's not about giving up hope, it's about recognizing whether a relationship is strong and supportive enough for a good marriage. Or recognizing whether a marriage is actually a source of wellness and support. If it isn't, then both people have to be willing to work to improve it, and as a last resort dissolve the marriage if it is irretrievably broken.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

rektide 5y ago

author sounds like they are dealing with what most good people suffer through: a radical overabundance of non independently spirited normies, bearing limited ambitions, small horizons, & low inherent drive. anyone of character appreciates & can mutually enhance those others of character, even if unalike.