12 ms·

Live the Dream, Make the Change, Move to Pitcairn Island (2018)

156 points by jnord 5y ago

neonate 5y ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20210807121846/http://www.immigration.gov.pn/immigrate/index.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210807121846/http://www.immigr... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_Islands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_Islands
dang 5y ago
Looks like this is the only past thread, if you can call it that: Pitcairn Islands - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9116933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9116933 - Feb 2015 (1 comment) But here are related articles that have been posted in the past (without comments): https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/12/16/pitcairn_island_an_idyll_haunted_by_its_past.html https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/12/16/pitcairn_islan... https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2008/01/pitcairn200801 https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2008/01/pitcairn200801 https://web.archive.org/web/20160303231033/http://www.winthrop.dk/chimp.html https://web.archive.org/web/20160303231033/http://www.winthr...
micromacrofoot 5y ago
This reminds me of Arranmore island's request for immigrants (Ireland)... I earnestly pursued more information and it turns out they didn't even have anywhere for potential immigrants to live. It seems like the campaign started and ended at "move here" and there was no actual plan to help anyone do it. Pitcairn is much more isolated, with freight ships only coming every 3 months.
sonicggg 5y ago
"Come join us in this crappy remote island where the biggest form of entertainment is to diddle little kids!" (Yeah, most kids have been raped there) No, thanks.
teruakohatu 5y ago
This is partly administered by my country, New Zealand, although is not part of the Realm of New Zealand (New Zealand plus territories it controls), rather it is a British Overseas Territory. The people living there are mostly descendants of the Bounty mutineers and their captives. There has been a long sad history of sexual abuse, with one third of the island's male population being convicted and imprisoned in the early 2000s. They were let out of prison to do jobs, such as unloading cargo ships, during the day because the island could not function otherwise. There really are not many jobs to be had so migrants are not allowed to take local jobs, I guess they have to create a new job for themselves. According to Wikipedia they used to get 700 enquires a year for migration but nobody ever actually applied. I am surprised nobody has tried using it as a stepping stone to get into New Zealand, because the Islanders can live and work indefinitely in New Zealand if they are of good character and good health. Edit: I did not want to sound disrespectful so I edited my comment slightly.
- doublec 5y ago
  I dispute your words that the island is a "rather sad place". It is a place full of people living in a remote island but the place is a warm and vibrant community full of history. Not just the history of the mutiny, but the history of the Tahitian ancestry pre-mutiny. They have a local government where local laws are enacted but as you say, they are British ruled due to a an encounter in the 1838 of a British ship where the Pitcairners asked for some laws to be drafted. Many administration aspects are managed from New Zealand for convenience but it is not administered by New Zealand. The High Commissioner in Auckland is a represents the UK.
  - teruakohatu 5y ago
    > I dispute your words that the island is a "rather sad place" I certainly meant no disrespect to you or your family. Maybe it has improved since the court cases? If the people, especially the woman, there are happy I am very glad to hear it. I edited my comment out of respect. > Many administration aspects are managed from New Zealand The police are New Zealand police.
    - doublec 5y ago
      Yes, things have improved. The island is very much moving on from the events of the past. Pitcairn is quite possibly the most surveilled place in the world at the moment with the ratio of islanders to government officials whose remit is to report on anything they perceive as suspicious. It's frustrating to us that every time that Pitcairn is mentioned the "You may remember Pitcairn as the island where sex abuse trials happened" comes up. Part of this is due to the media interest in covering events in a remote island - you don't hear with every mention of other places in the world where bad things have happened because that doesn't have the allure of a remote mysterious island. Yes, the police are often New Zealand police. The Doctor, Teacher and Police positions are advertised in NZ and UK.
      - DoreenMichele 5y ago
        officials whose remit is to report on anything they perceive as suspicious. Oof. That would be crazy making. If you are actively looking for such, you will find it -- even if you have to read in a lot that isn't really there. Add in cross cultural misunderstanding and this has to be a pretty negative experience for locals.
867-5309 5y ago
population: 47, according to wikipedia
MattGaiser 5y ago
Anyone know of anyone has actually applied?
- Animats 5y ago
  Wikipedia: "The Pitcairn government's attempts to attract migrants have been unsuccessful. Since 2013, some 700 make inquiries each year, but so far, not a single formal settlement application has been received." It's never been important enough militarily for anybody to build an airport. It's mountainous, with no big flat areas, so that's a big earthmoving job. It's at least 1500 miles to anywhere, so a small bush STOL plane can't make the hop. So who wants to spend $100 million on their post-apocalypse hideout?
  - doublec 5y ago
    I've heard that there have been applications, but the problem seems to be that the people applying lack the understanding of what it's like to live there. Generally you want people to live on the island for a few months to see if they can manage. Things are on hold at the moment due to the borders being closed during the pandemic.
doublec 5y ago
I am of Pitcairn descent. My grandmother was born there. I'm a descendant of the mutineers Fletcher Christian, John Mills and Edward Young, and the Tahitian women who went there, Mauatua, Vahineatua, To'ofaiti and Teraura. I've been to the island and I'm active in the Pitcairn community here in New Zealand. The island is a vibrant community of people working. When I was there they were very warm and welcoming. The island itself is small but with mountainous areas and there is much to see and do. The vibe on the island is very similar to any small rural town in New Zealand. I have photos of the trip if anyone is interested http://cd.pn/pn2012/ http://cd.pn/pn2012/
- username91 5y ago
  Those photos are great! Thanks for sharing.
- cupcake-unicorn 5y ago
  Can you answer more questions about the state of the infrastructure there like electricity and internet? On Wikipedia it says there's only one person in charge of the electricity and it goes off every night.
  - doublec 5y ago
    When I was there the power operated until 10pm at night. From that time homes would either run from personal generators, or batteries - to power refrigerators, lights, routers, etc. These days the homes have or are getting solar panels. Internet was terrible at the time. I wrote about it here: https://bluishcoder.co.nz/2012/05/29/pitcairn-island-and-slow-internet.html https://bluishcoder.co.nz/2012/05/29/pitcairn-island-and-slo... It has improved but is still relatively slow and expensive.
    - vimy 5y ago
      Starlink seems perfect for this island.
      - 5y ago
cupcake-unicorn 5y ago
This is crazy this showed up on HN. Years ago I had a dream about Pitcairn island. When I woke up I was like, does that even exist? Not sure how my psyche channeled this one up. Then I started reading about it and things are pretty sad there. You can see on the Wikipedia site some really shocking info like there's only one older administrator of the electricity system there and not to mention all the awful abuse scandals. It was super surprising to me though to see that foreigners were welcomed here and that more people hadn't taken this offer up! I would say if you're interested in moving to an autonomous region I'd for sure check out Svalbard first, although they're undergoing climate change and it's hard for foreigners to get land there.
- doublec 5y ago
  I feel like a broken record, but just because things are different doesn't make it "sad". Sure, it doesn't have the mod cons of modern city life, but it has a lifestyle of growing your own food, fishing, building what you need and living in the country. People have applied for the ability to live there but the reality is that there are many people dreaming of an idyllic lifestyle but when faced with the realisation of how hard they have to work to survive on a remote island and having to integrate into an established community they don't progress further.
  - cupcake-unicorn 5y ago
    Sorry about that, I shouldn't have put it that way, I was referring more to the history of the abuse scandals and not modern life that I'm unaware of, I didn't phrase it correctly at all. For sure the isolation isn't for everyone but any remote place would be that way.
  - Clampower 5y ago
    It sounds like living in Animal Crossing tbh.
sunstone 5y ago
One benefit is the time zone of Pitcairn is very close to North American Pacific time. Right now it's one hour earlier. Get your Starlink account and you're set.
- Robotbeat 5y ago
  Indeed. Starlink (with laser links when they get them) plus solar plus batteries (and backup generator), and you're set. Anyone who does remote-only work with a US typical income and is able to live relatively simply would be able to move there.
  - ornornor 5y ago
    Yeah… good luck getting spare parts if your laptop goes down. Also, the power goes off at 10pm every day, you have to generate your own for the night. It also seems like most people there grow their own food. That takes time when does for self-sufficiency. And it looks like there is no property currently for sale along with limited rental options. You basically have to build your own house (with only supplies coming it every 3 months) Solving the internet problem is only the tip of the iceberg for remote working there, there are easier locales to be a remote worker in with similar living costs but easier logistics.
    - Robotbeat 5y ago
      Well of course you wouldn’t pick such a remote locale for no reason. But with remote work, low latency satellite broadband, solar+battery+generator, now you can. It wasn’t a real option before unless you had a specific job at that site or were independently wealthy.
DoreenMichele 5y ago
From the Wikipedia article posted in one of the comments: Although archaeologists believe that Polynesians were living on Pitcairn as late as the 15th century, the islands were uninhabited when they were rediscovered by Europeans. In 1790, nine of the mutineers from the Bounty, along with the native Tahitian men and women who were with them (six men, eleven women, and a baby girl), settled on Pitcairn Island and set fire to the Bounty. So that's likely why you've heard of them, though I don't think I've ever read Mutiny on the Bounty nor seen it retold in film or similar. I currently have an image of Midway on my laptop and I've been thinking about how remote islands end up with life. They typically emerge from the ocean as a barren outcropping of rock. Birds stop and rest there, leaving behind poo and sometimes seeds in the poo sprout. Coconuts can float in salt water for long periods and are typically the first trees found on remote islands. Sometimes insects get carried there on the winds of powerful storms and then diversify into a separate species because they can't fly far enough to leave again on their own steam. I wonder what we might learn from small islands that might help humans resolve their problems and survive climate change.
- doublec 5y ago
  There are Tahitian legends about Pitcairn Island, referred to as Hitiaurevareva, showing that there was travel to and from the island in the past. There are Mangarevan legends also. In the Tahitian legend of Rata, which would be familiar to NZ Māori and other Polynesian people, he goes from Tahiti to Pitcairn to rescue his mother. Tupaia who guided Captain Cook around the pacific, and who acted as translator, drew a map of the Islands he knew and visited and this included Pitcairn. Tupaia was a contempory of the Tahitian women who went on the Bounty to Pitcairn so he had been there in recent history before the Bounty arrived. One of the Tahitian men on the Bounty knew of the island and helped guide Fletcher there. I often wonder why no Polynesians went back after the Bounty settled.
  - DoreenMichele 5y ago
    I wonder if those oral traditions are being recorded and shared somehow. I assume you are talking about oral histories from locals.
shipmaster 5y ago
I knew nothing of Pitcairn but when I searched I ran into this in the Wikipedia article, its fallout is as recent as 2016. Surprised no one is talking about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_Islands#Sexual_misconduct_in_modern_times https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_Islands#Sexual_miscon...
- sonicggg 5y ago
  I said something about it, but my content was censored by the SS here.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
freyfogle 5y ago
surprised no one has mentioend the excellent Extremities podcast, one of the seasons was about life on and history of Pitcairn https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/arrival-on-pitcairn/id1467292185?i=1000441321371 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/arrival-on-pitcairn/id...
- scrollaway 5y ago
  Seconding Wendover’s Extremities season about Pitcairn. It’s a YouTube channel nowadays, it seems like the podcast didn’t take off much.
bravura 5y ago
"You can visit without a visa for up to 14 days, while long-term visit visas are valid for up to 6 months. " "How do people travel to/from Pitcairn? The Government of Pitcairn Islands charters a passenger/cargo vessel. This currently carries supplies and passengers to the island every three months." How do you visit for only 14 days if there is no airport and the ship only comes every three months?
- hollerith 5y ago
  Private yacht.
  - satori99 5y ago
    It'd have to be a big private yacht, as Pitcairn has no sheltered harbours. For a small yacht, even in the lee of the island, it would be difficult to stay for long, and you'd have to be prepared to leave whenever the weather changed.
    - doublec 5y ago
      Many smaller one-person yachts visit the island, they anchor offshore and get transport to the island via the islanders coming out on the longboat. Yachties stay overnight on their yacht for safety reasons - there have been incidents of them breaking away from their anchor.
- doublec 5y ago
  If I recall correctly the supply ship goes a round trip between Pitcairn and Mangareva which means you can get off on Pitcairn and wait for it to come back from Mangareva. I went on a chartered yacht being operated by a Pitcairn based tourist venture. Choices then were to stay for 2 days or 11 days. I stayed for a month due to the charter yacht needing to leave and then return with a department of conservation employee to investigate a rat sighting on Henderson island. There were many private yachts visiting the island while I was there, coming and staying for a few days then leaving.
EMM_386 5y ago
The idea of living on these remote islands fascinates me, especially in today's modern world where many on this planet are able to take certain conveniences for granted. If you have a medical emergency while in places like this, you may be in serious trouble. Even in places like Antarctica, and even at the top of Mount Everest, we have modern medical facilities within range and helicopters that can come grab you, weather permitting. Out here, a heart attack or stroke brings on a different level of scary, knowing you are going to have to cross your fingers in the same way as generations have in the past. There is no-one sending in a flight to get you off the island. If you happen to survive past the initial event, it's going to be a while before you see a specialist! Of course, this would be the same conditions the original explorers to land here lived under, and in fact most of humanity for the majority of human history. But it is not something people tend to think about too much these days when we're generally at least within distance of where helicopters and planes can reach. The FAQ even covers it ... > Note that if a medical evacuation is required, transport may not be quickly available, as outside our supply ship schedule the island has to rely on passing vessels. Even for something like a broken hip, just hope they have enough pain medication on hand until that next ship arrives. Which, if it's on schedule, might be in 3 months.
- doublec 5y ago
  A few years ago one of the islanders had appendicitis and the island doctor couldn't do anything. They put out a broadcast for ships in the area for help - eventually one was available and went to take him to Managreva, from there to fly to the hospital in Tahiti. Unfortunately he died during the voyage. Another incident with an islander having a medical issue, a broadcast was put out. There were no ships in the area. The situation was dire so they travelled to Mangareva by island longboat - two days over the open ocean - where he eventually was able to be medivacced to Tahiti. Remote island life, with no airport, is definitely risky at times.
- tragomaskhalos 5y ago
  If you aren't aware of it, you should check out "Atlas of Remote Islands: Fifty Islands I Have Not Visited and Never Will" by Judith Schalansky
bravura 5y ago
I was googling and there is inconsistent information about whether surfing is possible. Is it true there are no beaches?
- satori99 5y ago
  The shoreline is mostly just rocky clifftops. There are no beaches; https://www.google.com/maps/@-25.0712126,-130.1117952,3998m/data=!3m1!1e3 https://www.google.com/maps/@-25.0712126,-130.1117952,3998m/...
  - doublec 5y ago
    There is one beach area, Down Rope. See this photo: http://cd.pn/pn2012/#289 http://cd.pn/pn2012/#289 Not the idyllic sandy beach of most tropical islands though.
new_realist 5y ago
Are children allowed on the island after what happened there?
- doublec 5y ago
  There are children on the island, and a school there. When they get to high school age they leave the island to attend school in New Zealand and return afterwards - or stay in NZ. At the time of my journey there was a child protection order on the island which means if you planned to take children under the age of 16 then you need to apply for a visa. Government jobs don't allow taking children. One of the unfortunate obstacles to people immigrating is there is no public long term plan that I've seen about when that order will be lifted.
bobsmooth 5y ago
Once they get Skylink it sounds like a libertarian dream.
- janeroe 5y ago
  > Once they get Skylink it sounds like a libertarian dream Not just that. Other comments mention presence of some kind of external governance with "officials" intrusively poking their noses into someone else's business. Doesn't sound very libertarian if you ask me. On the other hand, reforms should be easier in a community of 50 people than in a country of hundred millions. Though they depend on UK's favours which complicates things.
Aeolun 5y ago
Any single person moving there with a SV salary can single handedly triple the GDP :P
simonebrunozzi 5y ago
I think the website is missing important information (or it's buried somewhere): - quick facts about Pitcairn [0] (e.g. 47 people, 47 sq.km of surface, British Overseas Territory) - what kind of visa you will grant (permanent resident?) - is there a path to citizenship / passport, and if so, how long it would take? - is there any special agreement with the UK? e.g. UK passport after 5 years of residence. - income tax? capital gains tax? - how easy is it to setup a business in Pitcairn? In any case, I plaud the effort to try to repopulate this island. There's something about human communities where under a certain size (200? 1000?), many things become really difficult, such as having key expertise "in house" (doctor, mechanician, electrician, plumber, etc), as well as being able to maintain a good "vibe" in the community. My guess is that 47 people on a 47 sq. km island are a bit on the low end. Hopefully they will manage to attract more people over the years. They might want to consider asking a government (UK? New Zealand?) to help them with some budget and an immigration program that could easily attract at least tens of people. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_Islands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_Islands
- doublec 5y ago
  Note that Pitcairn Island isn't 47 sq. km. That's the size of the combined islands in the Pitcairn area - Henderson, Ducie, Oeno and Pitcairn. Pitcairn Island itself is 3.2km long and 1.6km wide. The population has been in the low hundreds in the past, and population pressure was one of the reasons for the 1831 migration to Tahiti and the 1856 migration to Norfolk. I agree more information on the website would be good.
- Gradient-Ascent 5y ago
  You make a lot of typical western assumptions here and also assumptions because you have a migration background yourself ("they want to (re)populate the island" - Why would they "want that"? - Edit: Now I got you, but the island is just small and populated already and also: Populating a place (making babies) isn't a problem for most people ;-), they actually enjoy it and in the case with this island they even start very young :-O. The website offers relocation to a super-remote, poor and harsh place. It's out of the category that HR pulls all the time ala "Why you should work at place XYZ". But the reality is, that they only hire one specific person out of 100, that has exactly the skill they need. I think the "child rape" cases are rather a symptom: Life is hard, there is nothing to do. If your life expectancy is 25 years, then you rather reproduce early. Reproducing (populating) a place is not a problem. If it starts to be one ("As of 2012, just two children had been born on Pitcairn in the 21 years prior.") then something is wrong with the place itself. And as the migration numbers show: "For a recent survey that contacted hundreds of islanders who have left Pitcairn over the years, only 33 participated and just 3 expressed a desire to return." something is wrong with the place. It's like a company which pays peanuts having 80% of their positions open and complaining about not being able to find new employees and "HR (desperately) searching". So, fundamentally everything is going the right way on Pitcairn: A harsh place gets depopulated. And someone is spinning the fairytale and roses story, because it's one of the rare things there is to do (a payed (government) job on the island).
nine_k 5y ago
Among other things, it's apparently as close to the purported location of R'Lyeh as one can get. Just, well... in case.
new_realist 5y ago
The island looks beautiful, but I would worry about cabin fever, social isolation, emergency services and quality medical care. Also, there appear to be no beaches.
Gradient-Ascent 5y ago
Populating a place (making babies) is not a problem and if it starts to be one, then something is wrong with the place: If future prospects are very grimm, then people stop having kids. This is something seen across the entire western world. Wages are too low and to add insult to injury people outside the west (Jews, Arabs, PoC) demand immigration to solve the (wrong) problem, but serving their own interests. This became such an accepted narrative, that it is hard to correct (I just did) and gets pushed and used else/everywhere, like here, in a small island: Pitcairn. Something is wrong with the place itself: "As of 2012, just two children had been born on Pitcairn in the 21 years prior." Which is also shown in the absolute migration numbers: "For a recent survey that contacted hundreds of islanders who have left Pitcairn over the years, only 33 participated and just 3 expressed a desire to return." It's like a company which pays peanuts having 80% of their positions open and complaining about not being able to find new employees and "HR (desperately) searching". The article is out of the category that HR pulls all the time ala "Why you should work at place XYZ". But the reality is, that they only hire one specific person out of 100, that has exactly the skill they need. So, fundamentally everything is going the right way on Pitcairn: A harsh place gets depopulated. And someone is spinning the fairytale and roses story, because it's one of the rare things there is to do: A payed (government) job on the island. And: Everyone is just so isolated on that island and super-welcoming (of course) to someone new (and nice, ... he needs to be "a nice chap") arriving, because... excitement.
Cream-Corn-11 5y ago
This blog post has some pretty neat photos of the island: https://jeobox.com/3668/this-tiny-island-in-the-middle-of-nowhere-has-48-residents-after-seeing-this-i-want-to-be-49/ https://jeobox.com/3668/this-tiny-island-in-the-middle-of-no... But yeah, the island does have a dark past.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

156 points by jnord 5y ago

https://web.archive.org/web/20210807121846/http://www.immigration.gov.pn/immigrate/index.html https://web.archive.org/web/20210807121846/http://www.immigr... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_Islands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_Islands

dang 5y ago

Looks like this is the only past thread, if you can call it that: Pitcairn Islands - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9116933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9116933 - Feb 2015 (1 comment) But here are related articles that have been posted in the past (without comments): https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/12/16/pitcairn_island_an_idyll_haunted_by_its_past.html https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/12/16/pitcairn_islan... https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2008/01/pitcairn200801 https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2008/01/pitcairn200801 https://web.archive.org/web/20160303231033/http://www.winthrop.dk/chimp.html https://web.archive.org/web/20160303231033/http://www.winthr...

micromacrofoot 5y ago

This reminds me of Arranmore island's request for immigrants (Ireland)... I earnestly pursued more information and it turns out they didn't even have anywhere for potential immigrants to live. It seems like the campaign started and ended at "move here" and there was no actual plan to help anyone do it. Pitcairn is much more isolated, with freight ships only coming every 3 months.

sonicggg 5y ago

"Come join us in this crappy remote island where the biggest form of entertainment is to diddle little kids!" (Yeah, most kids have been raped there) No, thanks.

teruakohatu 5y ago

This is partly administered by my country, New Zealand, although is not part of the Realm of New Zealand (New Zealand plus territories it controls), rather it is a British Overseas Territory. The people living there are mostly descendants of the Bounty mutineers and their captives. There has been a long sad history of sexual abuse, with one third of the island's male population being convicted and imprisoned in the early 2000s. They were let out of prison to do jobs, such as unloading cargo ships, during the day because the island could not function otherwise. There really are not many jobs to be had so migrants are not allowed to take local jobs, I guess they have to create a new job for themselves. According to Wikipedia they used to get 700 enquires a year for migration but nobody ever actually applied. I am surprised nobody has tried using it as a stepping stone to get into New Zealand, because the Islanders can live and work indefinitely in New Zealand if they are of good character and good health. Edit: I did not want to sound disrespectful so I edited my comment slightly.

doublec 5y ago
I dispute your words that the island is a "rather sad place". It is a place full of people living in a remote island but the place is a warm and vibrant community full of history. Not just the history of the mutiny, but the history of the Tahitian ancestry pre-mutiny. They have a local government where local laws are enacted but as you say, they are British ruled due to a an encounter in the 1838 of a British ship where the Pitcairners asked for some laws to be drafted. Many administration aspects are managed from New Zealand for convenience but it is not administered by New Zealand. The High Commissioner in Auckland is a represents the UK.
- teruakohatu 5y ago
  > I dispute your words that the island is a "rather sad place" I certainly meant no disrespect to you or your family. Maybe it has improved since the court cases? If the people, especially the woman, there are happy I am very glad to hear it. I edited my comment out of respect. > Many administration aspects are managed from New Zealand The police are New Zealand police.
  - doublec 5y ago
    Yes, things have improved. The island is very much moving on from the events of the past. Pitcairn is quite possibly the most surveilled place in the world at the moment with the ratio of islanders to government officials whose remit is to report on anything they perceive as suspicious. It's frustrating to us that every time that Pitcairn is mentioned the "You may remember Pitcairn as the island where sex abuse trials happened" comes up. Part of this is due to the media interest in covering events in a remote island - you don't hear with every mention of other places in the world where bad things have happened because that doesn't have the allure of a remote mysterious island. Yes, the police are often New Zealand police. The Doctor, Teacher and Police positions are advertised in NZ and UK.
    - DoreenMichele 5y ago
      officials whose remit is to report on anything they perceive as suspicious. Oof. That would be crazy making. If you are actively looking for such, you will find it -- even if you have to read in a lot that isn't really there. Add in cross cultural misunderstanding and this has to be a pretty negative experience for locals.

867-5309 5y ago

population: 47, according to wikipedia

MattGaiser 5y ago

Anyone know of anyone has actually applied?

Animats 5y ago
Wikipedia: "The Pitcairn government's attempts to attract migrants have been unsuccessful. Since 2013, some 700 make inquiries each year, but so far, not a single formal settlement application has been received." It's never been important enough militarily for anybody to build an airport. It's mountainous, with no big flat areas, so that's a big earthmoving job. It's at least 1500 miles to anywhere, so a small bush STOL plane can't make the hop. So who wants to spend $100 million on their post-apocalypse hideout?
- doublec 5y ago
  I've heard that there have been applications, but the problem seems to be that the people applying lack the understanding of what it's like to live there. Generally you want people to live on the island for a few months to see if they can manage. Things are on hold at the moment due to the borders being closed during the pandemic.

doublec 5y ago

I am of Pitcairn descent. My grandmother was born there. I'm a descendant of the mutineers Fletcher Christian, John Mills and Edward Young, and the Tahitian women who went there, Mauatua, Vahineatua, To'ofaiti and Teraura. I've been to the island and I'm active in the Pitcairn community here in New Zealand. The island is a vibrant community of people working. When I was there they were very warm and welcoming. The island itself is small but with mountainous areas and there is much to see and do. The vibe on the island is very similar to any small rural town in New Zealand. I have photos of the trip if anyone is interested http://cd.pn/pn2012/ http://cd.pn/pn2012/

username91 5y ago
Those photos are great! Thanks for sharing.
cupcake-unicorn 5y ago
Can you answer more questions about the state of the infrastructure there like electricity and internet? On Wikipedia it says there's only one person in charge of the electricity and it goes off every night.
- doublec 5y ago
  When I was there the power operated until 10pm at night. From that time homes would either run from personal generators, or batteries - to power refrigerators, lights, routers, etc. These days the homes have or are getting solar panels. Internet was terrible at the time. I wrote about it here: https://bluishcoder.co.nz/2012/05/29/pitcairn-island-and-slow-internet.html https://bluishcoder.co.nz/2012/05/29/pitcairn-island-and-slo... It has improved but is still relatively slow and expensive.
  - vimy 5y ago
    Starlink seems perfect for this island.
    - 5y ago

cupcake-unicorn 5y ago

This is crazy this showed up on HN. Years ago I had a dream about Pitcairn island. When I woke up I was like, does that even exist? Not sure how my psyche channeled this one up. Then I started reading about it and things are pretty sad there. You can see on the Wikipedia site some really shocking info like there's only one older administrator of the electricity system there and not to mention all the awful abuse scandals. It was super surprising to me though to see that foreigners were welcomed here and that more people hadn't taken this offer up! I would say if you're interested in moving to an autonomous region I'd for sure check out Svalbard first, although they're undergoing climate change and it's hard for foreigners to get land there.

doublec 5y ago
I feel like a broken record, but just because things are different doesn't make it "sad". Sure, it doesn't have the mod cons of modern city life, but it has a lifestyle of growing your own food, fishing, building what you need and living in the country. People have applied for the ability to live there but the reality is that there are many people dreaming of an idyllic lifestyle but when faced with the realisation of how hard they have to work to survive on a remote island and having to integrate into an established community they don't progress further.
- cupcake-unicorn 5y ago
  Sorry about that, I shouldn't have put it that way, I was referring more to the history of the abuse scandals and not modern life that I'm unaware of, I didn't phrase it correctly at all. For sure the isolation isn't for everyone but any remote place would be that way.
- Clampower 5y ago
  It sounds like living in Animal Crossing tbh.

sunstone 5y ago

One benefit is the time zone of Pitcairn is very close to North American Pacific time. Right now it's one hour earlier. Get your Starlink account and you're set.

Robotbeat 5y ago
Indeed. Starlink (with laser links when they get them) plus solar plus batteries (and backup generator), and you're set. Anyone who does remote-only work with a US typical income and is able to live relatively simply would be able to move there.
- ornornor 5y ago
  Yeah… good luck getting spare parts if your laptop goes down. Also, the power goes off at 10pm every day, you have to generate your own for the night. It also seems like most people there grow their own food. That takes time when does for self-sufficiency. And it looks like there is no property currently for sale along with limited rental options. You basically have to build your own house (with only supplies coming it every 3 months) Solving the internet problem is only the tip of the iceberg for remote working there, there are easier locales to be a remote worker in with similar living costs but easier logistics.
  - Robotbeat 5y ago
    Well of course you wouldn’t pick such a remote locale for no reason. But with remote work, low latency satellite broadband, solar+battery+generator, now you can. It wasn’t a real option before unless you had a specific job at that site or were independently wealthy.

DoreenMichele 5y ago

From the Wikipedia article posted in one of the comments: Although archaeologists believe that Polynesians were living on Pitcairn as late as the 15th century, the islands were uninhabited when they were rediscovered by Europeans. In 1790, nine of the mutineers from the Bounty, along with the native Tahitian men and women who were with them (six men, eleven women, and a baby girl), settled on Pitcairn Island and set fire to the Bounty. So that's likely why you've heard of them, though I don't think I've ever read Mutiny on the Bounty nor seen it retold in film or similar. I currently have an image of Midway on my laptop and I've been thinking about how remote islands end up with life. They typically emerge from the ocean as a barren outcropping of rock. Birds stop and rest there, leaving behind poo and sometimes seeds in the poo sprout. Coconuts can float in salt water for long periods and are typically the first trees found on remote islands. Sometimes insects get carried there on the winds of powerful storms and then diversify into a separate species because they can't fly far enough to leave again on their own steam. I wonder what we might learn from small islands that might help humans resolve their problems and survive climate change.

doublec 5y ago
There are Tahitian legends about Pitcairn Island, referred to as Hitiaurevareva, showing that there was travel to and from the island in the past. There are Mangarevan legends also. In the Tahitian legend of Rata, which would be familiar to NZ Māori and other Polynesian people, he goes from Tahiti to Pitcairn to rescue his mother. Tupaia who guided Captain Cook around the pacific, and who acted as translator, drew a map of the Islands he knew and visited and this included Pitcairn. Tupaia was a contempory of the Tahitian women who went on the Bounty to Pitcairn so he had been there in recent history before the Bounty arrived. One of the Tahitian men on the Bounty knew of the island and helped guide Fletcher there. I often wonder why no Polynesians went back after the Bounty settled.
- DoreenMichele 5y ago
  I wonder if those oral traditions are being recorded and shared somehow. I assume you are talking about oral histories from locals.

shipmaster 5y ago

I knew nothing of Pitcairn but when I searched I ran into this in the Wikipedia article, its fallout is as recent as 2016. Surprised no one is talking about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_Islands#Sexual_misconduct_in_modern_times https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_Islands#Sexual_miscon...

sonicggg 5y ago
I said something about it, but my content was censored by the SS here.

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freyfogle 5y ago

surprised no one has mentioend the excellent Extremities podcast, one of the seasons was about life on and history of Pitcairn https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/arrival-on-pitcairn/id1467292185?i=1000441321371 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/arrival-on-pitcairn/id...

scrollaway 5y ago
Seconding Wendover’s Extremities season about Pitcairn. It’s a YouTube channel nowadays, it seems like the podcast didn’t take off much.

bravura 5y ago

"You can visit without a visa for up to 14 days, while long-term visit visas are valid for up to 6 months. " "How do people travel to/from Pitcairn? The Government of Pitcairn Islands charters a passenger/cargo vessel. This currently carries supplies and passengers to the island every three months." How do you visit for only 14 days if there is no airport and the ship only comes every three months?

hollerith 5y ago
Private yacht.
- satori99 5y ago
  It'd have to be a big private yacht, as Pitcairn has no sheltered harbours. For a small yacht, even in the lee of the island, it would be difficult to stay for long, and you'd have to be prepared to leave whenever the weather changed.
  - doublec 5y ago
    Many smaller one-person yachts visit the island, they anchor offshore and get transport to the island via the islanders coming out on the longboat. Yachties stay overnight on their yacht for safety reasons - there have been incidents of them breaking away from their anchor.
doublec 5y ago
If I recall correctly the supply ship goes a round trip between Pitcairn and Mangareva which means you can get off on Pitcairn and wait for it to come back from Mangareva. I went on a chartered yacht being operated by a Pitcairn based tourist venture. Choices then were to stay for 2 days or 11 days. I stayed for a month due to the charter yacht needing to leave and then return with a department of conservation employee to investigate a rat sighting on Henderson island. There were many private yachts visiting the island while I was there, coming and staying for a few days then leaving.

EMM_386 5y ago

The idea of living on these remote islands fascinates me, especially in today's modern world where many on this planet are able to take certain conveniences for granted. If you have a medical emergency while in places like this, you may be in serious trouble. Even in places like Antarctica, and even at the top of Mount Everest, we have modern medical facilities within range and helicopters that can come grab you, weather permitting. Out here, a heart attack or stroke brings on a different level of scary, knowing you are going to have to cross your fingers in the same way as generations have in the past. There is no-one sending in a flight to get you off the island. If you happen to survive past the initial event, it's going to be a while before you see a specialist! Of course, this would be the same conditions the original explorers to land here lived under, and in fact most of humanity for the majority of human history. But it is not something people tend to think about too much these days when we're generally at least within distance of where helicopters and planes can reach. The FAQ even covers it ... > Note that if a medical evacuation is required, transport may not be quickly available, as outside our supply ship schedule the island has to rely on passing vessels. Even for something like a broken hip, just hope they have enough pain medication on hand until that next ship arrives. Which, if it's on schedule, might be in 3 months.

doublec 5y ago
A few years ago one of the islanders had appendicitis and the island doctor couldn't do anything. They put out a broadcast for ships in the area for help - eventually one was available and went to take him to Managreva, from there to fly to the hospital in Tahiti. Unfortunately he died during the voyage. Another incident with an islander having a medical issue, a broadcast was put out. There were no ships in the area. The situation was dire so they travelled to Mangareva by island longboat - two days over the open ocean - where he eventually was able to be medivacced to Tahiti. Remote island life, with no airport, is definitely risky at times.
tragomaskhalos 5y ago
If you aren't aware of it, you should check out "Atlas of Remote Islands: Fifty Islands I Have Not Visited and Never Will" by Judith Schalansky

bravura 5y ago

I was googling and there is inconsistent information about whether surfing is possible. Is it true there are no beaches?

satori99 5y ago
The shoreline is mostly just rocky clifftops. There are no beaches; https://www.google.com/maps/@-25.0712126,-130.1117952,3998m/data=!3m1!1e3 https://www.google.com/maps/@-25.0712126,-130.1117952,3998m/...
- doublec 5y ago
  There is one beach area, Down Rope. See this photo: http://cd.pn/pn2012/#289 http://cd.pn/pn2012/#289 Not the idyllic sandy beach of most tropical islands though.

new_realist 5y ago

Are children allowed on the island after what happened there?

doublec 5y ago
There are children on the island, and a school there. When they get to high school age they leave the island to attend school in New Zealand and return afterwards - or stay in NZ. At the time of my journey there was a child protection order on the island which means if you planned to take children under the age of 16 then you need to apply for a visa. Government jobs don't allow taking children. One of the unfortunate obstacles to people immigrating is there is no public long term plan that I've seen about when that order will be lifted.

bobsmooth 5y ago

Once they get Skylink it sounds like a libertarian dream.

janeroe 5y ago
> Once they get Skylink it sounds like a libertarian dream Not just that. Other comments mention presence of some kind of external governance with "officials" intrusively poking their noses into someone else's business. Doesn't sound very libertarian if you ask me. On the other hand, reforms should be easier in a community of 50 people than in a country of hundred millions. Though they depend on UK's favours which complicates things.

Aeolun 5y ago

Any single person moving there with a SV salary can single handedly triple the GDP :P

simonebrunozzi 5y ago

I think the website is missing important information (or it's buried somewhere): - quick facts about Pitcairn [0] (e.g. 47 people, 47 sq.km of surface, British Overseas Territory) - what kind of visa you will grant (permanent resident?) - is there a path to citizenship / passport, and if so, how long it would take? - is there any special agreement with the UK? e.g. UK passport after 5 years of residence. - income tax? capital gains tax? - how easy is it to setup a business in Pitcairn? In any case, I plaud the effort to try to repopulate this island. There's something about human communities where under a certain size (200? 1000?), many things become really difficult, such as having key expertise "in house" (doctor, mechanician, electrician, plumber, etc), as well as being able to maintain a good "vibe" in the community. My guess is that 47 people on a 47 sq. km island are a bit on the low end. Hopefully they will manage to attract more people over the years. They might want to consider asking a government (UK? New Zealand?) to help them with some budget and an immigration program that could easily attract at least tens of people. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_Islands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_Islands

doublec 5y ago
Note that Pitcairn Island isn't 47 sq. km. That's the size of the combined islands in the Pitcairn area - Henderson, Ducie, Oeno and Pitcairn. Pitcairn Island itself is 3.2km long and 1.6km wide. The population has been in the low hundreds in the past, and population pressure was one of the reasons for the 1831 migration to Tahiti and the 1856 migration to Norfolk. I agree more information on the website would be good.
Gradient-Ascent 5y ago
You make a lot of typical western assumptions here and also assumptions because you have a migration background yourself ("they want to (re)populate the island" - Why would they "want that"? - Edit: Now I got you, but the island is just small and populated already and also: Populating a place (making babies) isn't a problem for most people ;-), they actually enjoy it and in the case with this island they even start very young :-O. The website offers relocation to a super-remote, poor and harsh place. It's out of the category that HR pulls all the time ala "Why you should work at place XYZ". But the reality is, that they only hire one specific person out of 100, that has exactly the skill they need. I think the "child rape" cases are rather a symptom: Life is hard, there is nothing to do. If your life expectancy is 25 years, then you rather reproduce early. Reproducing (populating) a place is not a problem. If it starts to be one ("As of 2012, just two children had been born on Pitcairn in the 21 years prior.") then something is wrong with the place itself. And as the migration numbers show: "For a recent survey that contacted hundreds of islanders who have left Pitcairn over the years, only 33 participated and just 3 expressed a desire to return." something is wrong with the place. It's like a company which pays peanuts having 80% of their positions open and complaining about not being able to find new employees and "HR (desperately) searching". So, fundamentally everything is going the right way on Pitcairn: A harsh place gets depopulated. And someone is spinning the fairytale and roses story, because it's one of the rare things there is to do (a payed (government) job on the island).

nine_k 5y ago

Among other things, it's apparently as close to the purported location of R'Lyeh as one can get. Just, well... in case.

new_realist 5y ago

The island looks beautiful, but I would worry about cabin fever, social isolation, emergency services and quality medical care. Also, there appear to be no beaches.

Gradient-Ascent 5y ago

Populating a place (making babies) is not a problem and if it starts to be one, then something is wrong with the place: If future prospects are very grimm, then people stop having kids. This is something seen across the entire western world. Wages are too low and to add insult to injury people outside the west (Jews, Arabs, PoC) demand immigration to solve the (wrong) problem, but serving their own interests. This became such an accepted narrative, that it is hard to correct (I just did) and gets pushed and used else/everywhere, like here, in a small island: Pitcairn. Something is wrong with the place itself: "As of 2012, just two children had been born on Pitcairn in the 21 years prior." Which is also shown in the absolute migration numbers: "For a recent survey that contacted hundreds of islanders who have left Pitcairn over the years, only 33 participated and just 3 expressed a desire to return." It's like a company which pays peanuts having 80% of their positions open and complaining about not being able to find new employees and "HR (desperately) searching". The article is out of the category that HR pulls all the time ala "Why you should work at place XYZ". But the reality is, that they only hire one specific person out of 100, that has exactly the skill they need. So, fundamentally everything is going the right way on Pitcairn: A harsh place gets depopulated. And someone is spinning the fairytale and roses story, because it's one of the rare things there is to do: A payed (government) job on the island. And: Everyone is just so isolated on that island and super-welcoming (of course) to someone new (and nice, ... he needs to be "a nice chap") arriving, because... excitement.

Cream-Corn-11 5y ago

This blog post has some pretty neat photos of the island: https://jeobox.com/3668/this-tiny-island-in-the-middle-of-nowhere-has-48-residents-after-seeing-this-i-want-to-be-49/ https://jeobox.com/3668/this-tiny-island-in-the-middle-of-no... But yeah, the island does have a dark past.

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