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Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- ramchip 15y agoI could be mistaken, but I think the TSA has nothing to do with handling visa waivers.
- heyimfromreddit 15y agoNot surprising. They employ people with below average intelligence who are convinced that the U.S. is such a brilliant country and every single person they come into contact with is from such a terrible shithole that the only reason they could possibly be "visiting" the U.S. is because they plan to illegally overstay so that they may enjoy a much better life in the greatest country on Earth. ...And that's if you are white.
- esrauch 15y agoPretty sure you are overgeneralizing there.
- heyimfromreddit 15y agoOf course I am. But there is still some truth in there. Some CBP officers are friendly... many are not. Upon entering the U.S. you effectively have no rights whatsoever. Whether or not you're allowed to enter the country is entirely at the discretion of the CBP officer you happen to get, and you have no right to appeal their decision. Run into one who's having a bad day and doesn't like the look of you and you're screwed.
- colinplamondon 15y agoThat's the awesome thing about sovereignty- we get to run background checks and see if someone's been hanging out in Pakistan Frontier Provinces or Yemen lately. If someone looks sketchy, we boot them out. Coming to an expensive first world country with $600 for 2 weeks is pretty clearly sketchy. CBPs make wrong decisions sometimes. This wasn't one of those times.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- groby_b 15y agoThe problem is, the CBP people get to play god. They're (as far as I can tell) not bound by any rules. Two examples: When my dad wanted to come over, the US Embassy told him that technically, they can turn away people at the border for no reason except they don't like you. When I first got here, many moons ago, I had a Visa from the US embassy inserted in my passport. Since the officer at the border was having a bad day (or whatever triggered this), he was asking for the full set of paperwork leading up to the Visa - two large binders with 500+ pages of paperwork. ---- I don't object to CBP being able to turn away people, that's reasonable. I object to there being no clear rules and regulations that you can check before you e.g. board a 12-hour transatlantic flight. If, in the above example, there was a clear rule that you must bring $X per day, you could avoid this nonsense. But there isn't. It's entirely the border agents discretion.
- bigwally 15y ago> we get to run background checks and see if someone's been hanging out in Pakistan Frontier Provinces or Yemen lately. You are overestimating the competence of the US government. > If someone looks sketchy, we boot them out. So dress nice and talk a lot of crap and they let you in. >CBPs make wrong decisions sometimes. This wasn't one of those times. Yay for security theater. I am glad someone feels safer.
- jules 15y agoThe reply of groby_b was wrongly killed.
- latch 15y agoIf not understanding how bitcoin works is your mark for "below average intelligence", then call me stupid.
- kiba 15y agoWow! My Bitcoin Weekly interview with Doctor Nefario got mentioned in a news source. Lucky lucky me!
- joezydeco 15y agoNothing in the story says he was flagged for deeper interviewing because of his involvement with Bitcoin. He told the agent he was saying for two months on $600 USD and, making an assumption here, no credit cards or anything else to supplement his stay. How do we know he wasn't flagged under a different rule, such as "$100 a week in the US? Maybe he's taking a temporary job. Let's look further". Border agents hate finding out you've come under a tourist visa when really you've come to work.
- CaveTech 15y agoI think you're confused about the definition of befuddle. be·fud·dle 1. To confuse; perplex. 2. To stupefy with or as if with alcoholic drink. Customs agents didn't flag him for his involvement in bitcoin; they didn't understand what it was and how he could possibly fund his trip with it.
- chc 15y agoOr they didn't believe it was as good as cash, which is kind of a fair assessment. The guy he was going to meet might not have had the cash after all, and without a buyer, the Bitcoins have no intrinsic value. Saying that you have a suitcase full of collectable pins that you intend to trade with a guy for $1500 would probably not get you into the US either.
- andrewpi 15y agoI wonder if the customs agents also had a problem with him trying to do work in the United States while here under the Visa Waiver Program?
- zzygan 15y agoAs an Australian citizen who has recently traveled to the US under the Visa waiver program with the sole purpose of working (I was sent to the US by my employer), I can say pretty definitively that they dont have an issue with working as long as you have a return ticket (which they checked out in my case)
- praptak 15y agoWork is definitely not allowed under the VWP, only "tourism and business": http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html#travelertype http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1990.html#... Maybe a trip when you work on behalf on a foreign employer counts as "business".
- edkennedy 15y agoHow would this be any different from bringing an equivalent value in "goods"? (whether they are digital or physical)
- bdonlan 15y agoYou would declare the goods you're importing (which brings with it its own set of issues when importing high-value goods). That said, it's unclear when or if bitcoins would be 'imported'. And it's also unclear whether, for example, someone bringing in $5000 worth of gold bullion via a passenger jet would be able to come in via visa waiver (they may classify selling it as a form of work). Anyway, the visa waiver program is for ordinary tourists. Doing something way out of the ordinary like that is just asking them to deny your visa. At the very least, apply beforehand and explain the situation to the immigration agents.
- dublinclontarf 15y agoThe bitcoin is on a server, and is only "imported" once you download it.
- reemrevnivek 15y agoMost goods that might be imported with the intent to trade for cash have more obvious (or, in the case of, say, gold or gemstones, more universally recognized) value.
- SageRaven 15y agoI found the part about them copying data from his phone and iPad more troublesome than the whole bitcoin thing. Why would a self-described "cypherpunk" travel with non-encrypted digital devices, anyway?
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- nl 15y agoI have a deep cynicism of anyone who describes themselves as a cypherpunk.. Having said that: an unencrypted phone/iPad is actually pretty sensible. You keep all the information you actually want to secure on a server safe at home, and have client software on your devices that can only access it after verifying the user (preferably using two-factor authentication, but even a password would be enough for this purpose)
- robtoo 15y agoImmigration would also have been able to demand the password for his bitcoin wallet...
- dublinclontarf 15y agoJust to be clear, the phone and iPad had been wiped before coming and had just enough information on them to complete the trip, i.e. a map to the startpad.org office, and the needed phone numbers, nothing else. The U.S. has internet access, so upload everything to the cloud(encrypted) and then sync when you get there, which is what the plan was. Also having an encrypted device is useless if they can hold you until you open it. Finally I was talking to someone about this yesterday evening, they had their laptop taken off them for about 10 minutes by the border agents, in that time they installed a rookit on it to track keystrokes.
- khafra 15y ago> ...had their laptop taken off them for about 10 minutes by the border agents, in that time they installed a rookit on it to track keystrokes. Really? How certain is he that the keylogger was a recent addition? I have a hard time believing that an ordinary border agent is that technically competent, even if he just had to put in a usb device and select a few menu options.
- umright 15y agoAdvice for crossing the US Border. 1) You are there on a holiday. Telling them you are self employed and going to work in an office you are renting there is only asking for trouble. It confuses the hell out of them. You think where you do the work from doesn't matter, they think you need a visa. You lose. 2) If you are going for a conference, print the badge off before your flight and have it with you. 3) Email or upload all your files to dropbox/some server in a TrueCrypt container, and wipe all devices you will be crossing with, including your phone. What do you need them searching through your stuff for? Who knows what they will do with it. It's just asking for it.
- Astrohacker 15y agoThis is good advice, but of course it's pretty absurd that anyone has to take these steps to avoid the overly invasive US government.
- jrockway 15y agoThis is pretty much true of clearing customs in any other country. The reason we hear so much about the US is because it's a really big country. (As an American, I hate crossing the UK border just as much as crossing the US border. What's the point of being in the EU if you aren't going to act like it? :)
- liedra 15y agoThe EU isn't Schengen, that's why.
- sesqu 15y agoBut that's pretty much only because of the UK. There are a few countries that are supposed to be in the schengen area but aren't, a few countries that got in because it would have been impractical to keep them out, and the EU countries except the UK and Ireland (who are only out because of the UK).
- eric-hu 15y ago
- abalashov 15y agoI am most concerned about why they made copies of his iPhone and iPad. I'm not going to sit here and pick apart whether they had a "right" to do that -- it has long been abundantly clear that customs Gestapo can arbitrarily assign whatever rights they want to themselves, with full legislative and judicial blessing, in the name of security theater. But why? What did he do that earned this treatment?
- mike-cardwell 15y agoThis confused me as well. What possible reason could they have had to do that?
- StavrosK 15y ago"Why not?"
- Astrohacker 15y agoThat's probably the right answer, since they have the power to do this. But of course it is disturbing and unacceptable that they would violate someone's personal property with no crime or even a suspected crime having been committed (or even if there had been a crime committed). Unfortunately the only practical way to change this that I see is to wait for the US government to collapse due to its unsustainable financial policies.
- vessenes 15y agoI worked out the plan (well, mostly just said "okay") when Nefario suggested coming out to Seattle to try and launch a Bitcoin Incubator. Knowing him a little (over skype), I'm not surprised things went badly at the border -- he's got a sort of sweet naive / anti-banking system mix in his persona; from what he told me, it was a tough and stressful spot -- interrogation tactics at the end of two+ days of travel.. I'm bummed, though. I was thinking that it would be excellent to have a physical location for bitcoin development in the US as a sort of center of gravity. mckoss was kicking in some office space at StartPad, what wasn't to like? I'm not clear now what a good plan would be.
- joelthelion 15y agoMaybe he can come back with dollars in his pocket this time?
- nivertech 15y agoI was in Seattle a month ago for AMD Fusion conference. Here my dialog with the Immigration Officer: I.O. - "What's the purpose of you visit?" me - "I come to the AMD conference" I.O. - "For how long do you visiting US"? me - "8 days" I.O. - "How many days is the conference?" me - "3 days" I.O. - "So why do you come for 8 days??" ;) Re: "Dr. Nefario" - I can't believe he has no credit card.
- jrockway 15y agoHere's a word everyone speaking with an immigration officer needs to know: sightseeing.
- ma2rten 15y agoHis blog post itself had already been discussed before here, but it looks like the link is dead. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2802257 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2802257