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I’m glad the guy’s Chinese suppliers accepted bitcoin Ive been paying for a lot of contractor work internationally with stablecoins over the last several years

I’m glad the guy’s Chinese suppliers accepted bitcoin Ive been paying for a lot of contractor work internationally with stablecoins over the last several years It annoys me how much Tether is often people’s only stablecoin option at the exchanges in their country, and that education is much lower on how to do stuff onchain without exchanges (so they could accept many more assets and convert to whatever they wanted) But its way better than western union/paypal/wise/revolut/wire, or when it’s not better it’s nice it’s an option

anovikov 5y ago
How is it better than a wire? That's what i totally don't get. If you are not doing any criminal/black market transaction, what's the downside of sending a wire?
- kleer001 5y ago
  Fees and privacy, I suppose.
  - SwimSwimHungry 5y ago
    At least with Bitcoin, the ledger is open for all to see. The privacy angle is specious at best.
    - sebzim4500 5y ago
      It's true that the ledger is public but it isn't necessarily tied to your identity. You can use exchanges that do not require KYC to convert to a privacy coin like Monero, and then move that to fiat exchanges like Coinbase etc.
- namibj 5y ago
  They have ~30$ fees and take a day-or-two, depending on how well connected the banks involved are.
  - SwimSwimHungry 5y ago
    Are we going to forget the exorbitant network and miner fees of Bitcoin as well?
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - xiphias2 5y ago
      What exorbitant network fees are you talking about? For me it was only in 2017 when it was significant, but still smaller than what transferwise or international bank transfer usually takes from me (BTW make sure that you use a native SegWit address or lightning wallet for efficiency)
    - gruez 5y ago
      What "exorbitant network and miner fees"? According to https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/ https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/ transactions with 3 sat/byte are clearing within the next block. For a typical transaction of 400 bytes, that's around 17 cents.
- vmception 5y ago
  crypto is faster and 24/7. And even when assuming people want their local fiat currency they can use the domestic system to get it, which is usually faster than the international wire system even the heralded “SEPA” system cross border in Europe is not as reliable as it is a patch work of multiple systems (Instant SEPA, normal SEPA, etc). Ie. A SEPA transaction through Wise/Revolut could be fairly instant or it could be 7 actual days with a customer support query and fingers crossed. It is better for people to get the asset and convert it in their country with the banking partners or traders that work well for them. Or just invest/spend with that asset alone because it is equally (or more) valid earnings as fiat to many people. What you might be missing is that many of us arent acquiring crypto at the time to then send it to someone, we already have holdings in crypto because we earn in it too. I may have a few hundred dollars in stablecoins, just like I may also have a few hundred dollars in my Venmo or Wise or Revolut account. I periodically have liquid investments in crypto assets. So when I am choosing how to pay anyone a large amount and they don't accept credit card because they arent really a merchant but just good at something, then its really easy to just say ok give me your wallet address and the liquidity is nearly instantly under their control. Much more practical when you already have it. so its basically time saving, and what is essentially happening is that higher scrutiny, bank error prone international wires are converted into domestic payments for international commerce and circumvents the interchange bank issues.
- bendauphinee 5y ago
  For me, time. It can and has taken up to 4 days to receive a wire at TD, because they’re occasionally overloaded. Compare that to a 10 or so minute wait on most coins, for less than the wire fee.
- clintonb 5y ago
  If you’re in a developed nation, the only issue with a wire transfer is the $25-30 fee assessed by most banks. That said, if you’re making a wire transfer, you’re probably spending $5K+, so $25 is nothing. Those in developing nations might use crypto to avoid remittance fees, or due to increased accessibility. If the recipient doesn’t have a bank account, you can’t do a wire transfer. If the recipient has a phone, they can get an app to facilitate a crypto transfer.
  - vmception 5y ago
    And my bank has arbitrary daily and monthly $ limits for online wire transfers too, even on business accounts, even with their 2-factor key fob. Circumventable by walking into a branch, which is then unlimited. And all banks have a random interface for sending wires. Some don’t even have a way for you to initiate a wire online. Crypto is unlimited unlimited! Love it!
- wyager 5y ago
  Sending money internationally via fiat is a pain in the ass. It’s slow, unreliable, typically has limited amounts, often you run into regulatory roadblocks, high fees, not all banks accept wires in the currency you want to send, etc. And I’m a “power user” with accounts at multiple international brokerages.
  - vmception 5y ago
    Same. And usually those regulatory roadblocks are really just a private company’s interpretation of regulatory roadblocks, or them just throwing their hands up not wanting to deal with the regulation but inconvenience their customers while calling it “security reasons”. So yeah unlimited amounts and faster and 24/7 are available over crypto networks. I’m not sure what people want to read, its like they are waiting for a citable source about something thats just available.

anovikov 5y ago

How is it better than a wire? That's what i totally don't get. If you are not doing any criminal/black market transaction, what's the downside of sending a wire?

kleer001 5y ago
Fees and privacy, I suppose.
- SwimSwimHungry 5y ago
  At least with Bitcoin, the ledger is open for all to see. The privacy angle is specious at best.
  - sebzim4500 5y ago
    It's true that the ledger is public but it isn't necessarily tied to your identity. You can use exchanges that do not require KYC to convert to a privacy coin like Monero, and then move that to fiat exchanges like Coinbase etc.
namibj 5y ago
They have ~30$ fees and take a day-or-two, depending on how well connected the banks involved are.
- SwimSwimHungry 5y ago
  Are we going to forget the exorbitant network and miner fees of Bitcoin as well?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - xiphias2 5y ago
    What exorbitant network fees are you talking about? For me it was only in 2017 when it was significant, but still smaller than what transferwise or international bank transfer usually takes from me (BTW make sure that you use a native SegWit address or lightning wallet for efficiency)
  - gruez 5y ago
    What "exorbitant network and miner fees"? According to https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/ https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/ transactions with 3 sat/byte are clearing within the next block. For a typical transaction of 400 bytes, that's around 17 cents.
vmception 5y ago
crypto is faster and 24/7. And even when assuming people want their local fiat currency they can use the domestic system to get it, which is usually faster than the international wire system even the heralded “SEPA” system cross border in Europe is not as reliable as it is a patch work of multiple systems (Instant SEPA, normal SEPA, etc). Ie. A SEPA transaction through Wise/Revolut could be fairly instant or it could be 7 actual days with a customer support query and fingers crossed. It is better for people to get the asset and convert it in their country with the banking partners or traders that work well for them. Or just invest/spend with that asset alone because it is equally (or more) valid earnings as fiat to many people. What you might be missing is that many of us arent acquiring crypto at the time to then send it to someone, we already have holdings in crypto because we earn in it too. I may have a few hundred dollars in stablecoins, just like I may also have a few hundred dollars in my Venmo or Wise or Revolut account. I periodically have liquid investments in crypto assets. So when I am choosing how to pay anyone a large amount and they don't accept credit card because they arent really a merchant but just good at something, then its really easy to just say ok give me your wallet address and the liquidity is nearly instantly under their control. Much more practical when you already have it. so its basically time saving, and what is essentially happening is that higher scrutiny, bank error prone international wires are converted into domestic payments for international commerce and circumvents the interchange bank issues.
bendauphinee 5y ago
For me, time. It can and has taken up to 4 days to receive a wire at TD, because they’re occasionally overloaded. Compare that to a 10 or so minute wait on most coins, for less than the wire fee.
clintonb 5y ago
If you’re in a developed nation, the only issue with a wire transfer is the $25-30 fee assessed by most banks. That said, if you’re making a wire transfer, you’re probably spending $5K+, so $25 is nothing. Those in developing nations might use crypto to avoid remittance fees, or due to increased accessibility. If the recipient doesn’t have a bank account, you can’t do a wire transfer. If the recipient has a phone, they can get an app to facilitate a crypto transfer.
- vmception 5y ago
  And my bank has arbitrary daily and monthly $ limits for online wire transfers too, even on business accounts, even with their 2-factor key fob. Circumventable by walking into a branch, which is then unlimited. And all banks have a random interface for sending wires. Some don’t even have a way for you to initiate a wire online. Crypto is unlimited unlimited! Love it!
wyager 5y ago
Sending money internationally via fiat is a pain in the ass. It’s slow, unreliable, typically has limited amounts, often you run into regulatory roadblocks, high fees, not all banks accept wires in the currency you want to send, etc. And I’m a “power user” with accounts at multiple international brokerages.
- vmception 5y ago
  Same. And usually those regulatory roadblocks are really just a private company’s interpretation of regulatory roadblocks, or them just throwing their hands up not wanting to deal with the regulation but inconvenience their customers while calling it “security reasons”. So yeah unlimited amounts and faster and 24/7 are available over crypto networks. I’m not sure what people want to read, its like they are waiting for a citable source about something thats just available.