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If you don't get out of the mindset that unrestrained neoliberal capitalism is the only way to organize our economic affairs then yes, that's the only feasible

If you don't get out of the mindset that unrestrained neoliberal capitalism is the only way to organize our economic affairs then yes, that's the only feasible way. Meanwhile in sanity-land there are multiple ways to tackle this problem, the simplest of all is to simply price externalities correctly to end this outrageous situation where our future is being plundered to enrich some people today, and then use the revenue to fund a Green New Deal.

antisthenes 5y ago
Pricing externalities correctly just raises P, which leaves more fossil fuels in the ground. No need to berate OP for outlining a simplistic model of a market solution. The hard part isn't creating the policy anyway, it's having the political capital to get it approved and put into law.
- imtringued 5y ago
  As I said in a different comment. There isn't just P there is also C (as in cost to extract). P-C is your profit. Raising taxes increases C and thereby lowers the profit incentive to extract resources. The idea that the profit margin is fixed is stupid.
NineStarPoint 5y ago
Isn’t pricing externalities correctly exactly the neoliberal capitalist solution to these sorts of problems? I suppose ignoring that’s what you meant by “unrestrained”, but at that point you’re really just describing laissez-faire capitalism obliquely. Neoliberalism is all about using the market to solve problems instead of direct government intervention, so pricing externalities then letting the market take care of it is classic neoliberalism. Edit: And that lobbying and competing interests get in the way of actually pricing externalities correctly is the most obvious flaw of modern neoliberaism, but the theory isn’t the issue there.
- imtringued 5y ago
  > Neoliberalism is all about using the market to solve problems instead of direct government intervention, so pricing externalities then letting the market take care of it is classic neoliberalism. By neoliberal standards even a CO2 tax/tariff would be considered government intervention that must be avoided at all costs. Neoliberalism is about diminishing the role of the state in the economy. Capitalism itself has enough leeway to introduce a CO2 tax, neoliberalism doesn't because it is a self contradictory mess of wishful thinking. For neoliberalism letting lobbying and competing interest get in the way is part of the idea.
  - pfdietz 5y ago
    I think you've confused neoliberalism with libertarianism.

antisthenes 5y ago

Pricing externalities correctly just raises P, which leaves more fossil fuels in the ground. No need to berate OP for outlining a simplistic model of a market solution. The hard part isn't creating the policy anyway, it's having the political capital to get it approved and put into law.

imtringued 5y ago
As I said in a different comment. There isn't just P there is also C (as in cost to extract). P-C is your profit. Raising taxes increases C and thereby lowers the profit incentive to extract resources. The idea that the profit margin is fixed is stupid.

NineStarPoint 5y ago

Isn’t pricing externalities correctly exactly the neoliberal capitalist solution to these sorts of problems? I suppose ignoring that’s what you meant by “unrestrained”, but at that point you’re really just describing laissez-faire capitalism obliquely. Neoliberalism is all about using the market to solve problems instead of direct government intervention, so pricing externalities then letting the market take care of it is classic neoliberalism. Edit: And that lobbying and competing interests get in the way of actually pricing externalities correctly is the most obvious flaw of modern neoliberaism, but the theory isn’t the issue there.

imtringued 5y ago
> Neoliberalism is all about using the market to solve problems instead of direct government intervention, so pricing externalities then letting the market take care of it is classic neoliberalism. By neoliberal standards even a CO2 tax/tariff would be considered government intervention that must be avoided at all costs. Neoliberalism is about diminishing the role of the state in the economy. Capitalism itself has enough leeway to introduce a CO2 tax, neoliberalism doesn't because it is a self contradictory mess of wishful thinking. For neoliberalism letting lobbying and competing interest get in the way is part of the idea.
- pfdietz 5y ago
  I think you've confused neoliberalism with libertarianism.