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Wow. Patronizing: you know what's patronizing? The notion that this kid simply doesn't understand the realpolitik. Of course he does: it just punched him in th

Wow. Patronizing: you know what's patronizing? The notion that this kid simply doesn't understand the realpolitik. Of course he does: it just punched him in the face. He's fighting it. I respect him for that. Infuriating: you know what's infuriating? The person who claims to share the values this guy is standing up for but can't stop trash-talking him. Naïveté: you know what's naive? Thinking that rolling over and accepting realpolitik bullying is going to make things better. La-la land: you know where that is? It's right between cynicism and self-loathing. Of course things can get bad here! That's why we need to fight whenever they slide in that direction! Of course the West isn't a bastion of moral purity above all reproach! That doesn't excuse China's behavior, it doesn't make them the lesser evil, and it doesn't mean they aren't worth fighting! Stop navel-gazing and stand up for what you believe in. At the very least, cheer on those who do.

quickthrowman 5y ago
> Patronizing: you know what's patronizing? The notion that this kid just doesn't understand the realpolitik. Of course he does: it just punched him in the face. He's fighting it. I respect him for that. I disagree. His Chinese girlfriend was begging him to stop, but he carried on. It’s either hubris or not realizing what China is willing to do to stop people from criticizing it. He was also enrolled in a Chinese university, and was undoubtedly warned about criticizing the government.
- jeswin 5y ago
  So should he just shut up, then? It's scary if most people feel that way. There was also no risk to his GF. At worst, the relationship ends - it's not like the CCP is going to go after her (she did ask him to stop).
  - nelsondev 5y ago
    How do you know there was no risk to the GF? The article mentions she asked him to stop because she feared retaliation.
  - krageon 5y ago
    > it's not like the CCP is going to go after her This is not a reasonable assumption and once it's throw out it becomes clear this boy was endangering others as well as himself by doing something ill-advised and unplanned.
    - slapfrog 5y ago
      > this boy
    - CinzanoBianco 5y ago
      “The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.” ― Albert Einstein
      - krageon 5y ago
        It sounds very wise, except the person under discussion also did not do anything. He simply spoke poorly and got crushed. That isn't action of any kind, except as a type of suicide.
  - brigandish 5y ago
    I'm not one for turning up my nose to criticising government's like China's but the reality is that freedom of speech is not an important aspect to Chinese society (including many others) and if one wants to work there, travel there, and not endanger people there as he has done with his girlfriend's family, then one needs to at least consider the consequences for critical speech and whether they're worth bearing. > There was also no risk to his GF. At worst, the relationship ends - it's not like the CCP is going to go after her (she did ask him to stop). I'm not sure why you think being so apparently reasonable is also something her government and its supporters care about?
    - mcguire 5y ago
      "...the reality is that freedom of speech is not an important aspect to Chinese society (including many others)..." Including Switzerland, it seems.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - quickthrowman 5y ago
    > So should he just shut up, then? It's scary if most people feel that way. If his goal was to complete his studies at the Chinese university or maintain a relationship with his doctoral advisor who has ties to China, or to not make life for his girlfriend and her family difficult, yes. I don’t agree with the methods of the CCP to silence dissent, but that’s reality. Nothing will change on account of this guy.
slapfrog 5y ago
The GP reads like concern-trolling more than anything else. It doesn't seem sincere to me at all.
- ablearcher83 5y ago
  Agreed, it's classic concern-trolling.
geekfun 5y ago
Oh, what u r saying here is patronizing. Before you start to criticize others or another country, shouldn't you do some basic justification or research. Free speech is not about just blindly saying whatever u want. That's irresponsible. Ppl should be responsible for whatever they say as grown man. When you are blaming China's behavior or any other country's behavior, do u see any proof abt those so-called bad behaviors? Or u just read some news and followed whatever ppl are saying. In addition, every country has its own problems and own culture. Try to respect others first. If there is improvement other should have, what is needed is constructive suggestion instead of patronizing blame. Indeed I am disappointed abt this student's behavior as he has studied in China for sometime and he made friends in China as well, he should have a good understanding abt the life there and would understand what had happened there during COVID. He could have been more responsible for what he tweeted.
amrcnimgrnt 5y ago
I have no problem cheering on those who take on known risks. But a person who takes on risks they are ignorant off are not heroes. They're cannon fodder for internet chatterers who cheer them to their doom. They are to be pitied. I'm under no illusions that something has to be done to contain the rising totalitarians around the world. But I won't send a delusional noob to fight it for me. As to your comments about self-loathing. I love the West. I just don't think self-immolation through twitter is that effective. He's changed nothing for the better and lost everything. But we agree on something. He just got punched in the face w/ realpolitik

quickthrowman 5y ago

> Patronizing: you know what's patronizing? The notion that this kid just doesn't understand the realpolitik. Of course he does: it just punched him in the face. He's fighting it. I respect him for that. I disagree. His Chinese girlfriend was begging him to stop, but he carried on. It’s either hubris or not realizing what China is willing to do to stop people from criticizing it. He was also enrolled in a Chinese university, and was undoubtedly warned about criticizing the government.

jeswin 5y ago
So should he just shut up, then? It's scary if most people feel that way. There was also no risk to his GF. At worst, the relationship ends - it's not like the CCP is going to go after her (she did ask him to stop).
- nelsondev 5y ago
  How do you know there was no risk to the GF? The article mentions she asked him to stop because she feared retaliation.
- krageon 5y ago
  > it's not like the CCP is going to go after her This is not a reasonable assumption and once it's throw out it becomes clear this boy was endangering others as well as himself by doing something ill-advised and unplanned.
  - slapfrog 5y ago
    > this boy
  - CinzanoBianco 5y ago
    “The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.” ― Albert Einstein
    - krageon 5y ago
      It sounds very wise, except the person under discussion also did not do anything. He simply spoke poorly and got crushed. That isn't action of any kind, except as a type of suicide.
- brigandish 5y ago
  I'm not one for turning up my nose to criticising government's like China's but the reality is that freedom of speech is not an important aspect to Chinese society (including many others) and if one wants to work there, travel there, and not endanger people there as he has done with his girlfriend's family, then one needs to at least consider the consequences for critical speech and whether they're worth bearing. > There was also no risk to his GF. At worst, the relationship ends - it's not like the CCP is going to go after her (she did ask him to stop). I'm not sure why you think being so apparently reasonable is also something her government and its supporters care about?
  - mcguire 5y ago
    "...the reality is that freedom of speech is not an important aspect to Chinese society (including many others)..." Including Switzerland, it seems.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- quickthrowman 5y ago
  > So should he just shut up, then? It's scary if most people feel that way. If his goal was to complete his studies at the Chinese university or maintain a relationship with his doctoral advisor who has ties to China, or to not make life for his girlfriend and her family difficult, yes. I don’t agree with the methods of the CCP to silence dissent, but that’s reality. Nothing will change on account of this guy.

slapfrog 5y ago

The GP reads like concern-trolling more than anything else. It doesn't seem sincere to me at all.

ablearcher83 5y ago
Agreed, it's classic concern-trolling.

geekfun 5y ago

Oh, what u r saying here is patronizing. Before you start to criticize others or another country, shouldn't you do some basic justification or research. Free speech is not about just blindly saying whatever u want. That's irresponsible. Ppl should be responsible for whatever they say as grown man. When you are blaming China's behavior or any other country's behavior, do u see any proof abt those so-called bad behaviors? Or u just read some news and followed whatever ppl are saying. In addition, every country has its own problems and own culture. Try to respect others first. If there is improvement other should have, what is needed is constructive suggestion instead of patronizing blame. Indeed I am disappointed abt this student's behavior as he has studied in China for sometime and he made friends in China as well, he should have a good understanding abt the life there and would understand what had happened there during COVID. He could have been more responsible for what he tweeted.

amrcnimgrnt 5y ago

I have no problem cheering on those who take on known risks. But a person who takes on risks they are ignorant off are not heroes. They're cannon fodder for internet chatterers who cheer them to their doom. They are to be pitied. I'm under no illusions that something has to be done to contain the rising totalitarians around the world. But I won't send a delusional noob to fight it for me. As to your comments about self-loathing. I love the West. I just don't think self-immolation through twitter is that effective. He's changed nothing for the better and lost everything. But we agree on something. He just got punched in the face w/ realpolitik