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Yes although there where also some free farmers. As I understand it, the serfs had more power in the high middle ages than before and after, because the lords a
by brodo 5y ago
Yes although there where also some free farmers. As I understand it, the serfs had more power in the high middle ages than before and after, because the lords also lacked the resources for strong police forces. There was not a lot of metal around, so most soldiers did not have shields or armor. You and your serf buddies could realistically resist the local lord with some forks and knives. Plus the catholic church was also protecting serf's rights to an extend.
- zrail 5y agoAlso keep in mind that during that period the Black Plague killed 30-60% of the population. Serfs had more power because there were dramatically fewer of them.
- varjag 5y agoOn the other hand if it took a plague to improve the standards of living it is fair to agree the baseline was quite abysmal.
- zrail 5y agoOh no doubt!
- rufus_foreman 5y agoI don't think that argument makes sense. What's the country with the highest standard of living today? This says it's Canada: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/quality-of-life-rankings https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/quality-of-life-r.... If a plague wiped out 50% of the population of Canada, and wages went up afterwards, would that mean that the current standard of living in Canada is quite abysmal?
- TheOtherHobbes 5y agoIf a plague wiped out 50% of the population of the First World countries, wages wouldn't go up, they'd disappear entirely. The just-in-time supply chains that keep the lights on and food and other goods in the stores would fall apart within a couple of weeks. Medieval starvation was local. Areas were largely self-sufficient in the bare essentials - except in bad years, which happened regularly enough to keep a lid on population growth, but not so regularly they caused widespread depopulation. Trade was mostly for useful extras. That's very much not true today. Everything is specialised and interdependent, and not even farming areas are truly self-sufficient. This was - and possibly still is - the biggest risk from a pandemic. It's hard to calculate the exact tipping point, but when you have a certain percentage of the population unable to work for a couple of weeks or so, essential systems start breaking down.
- rufus_foreman 5y agoThe "essential" system that broke down during the Black Plague was serfdom. If 50% of Canadians died next week, you think what, Canada would cease to exist?
- pbourke 5y ago> If 50% of Canadians died next week, you think what, Canada would cease to exist? It’s possible. Canada’s nearly broken up* in recent memory over regional differences. 50% of a population dying is a massively destabilizing event that could undo even a comparatively wealthy nation. * or at least its second largest province narrowly decided to stay in Confederation.
- whoaisme 5y agoMaybe it would? I mean if yyou're smart tell us how 50 percent of Canucks getting wiped out would play out. You act as if plenty of political entities didn't cease to exist because of the plague.
- dragonelite 5y agoWe have seen the shock to the supply chain that happened during the early months of this pandemic.
- Amezarak 5y agoYes, this is the real problem with the modern world, and I'm afraid it's only getting worse. We're becoming hyper-efficient and scaling things up enormously at the cost of being extremely fragile. Eventually, some black swan event will happen and we'll have a systems collapse it will be very hard to recover from - because so little of the population will have baseline skills. Thankfully this pandemic wasn't it, but it doesn't seem to have woke up TPTB to the problem.
- IG_Semmelweiss 5y agoThe pandemic was not a black swan event. However i agree with you and i think even the US govt agrees with you. Thats the reason farming subsidies exist
- brodo 5y agoThe black plague started 1350. 1310 was the big famine. Late middle ages where no joke.
- lumost 5y agoI hadn't heard of a metal shortage during the middle ages ( only seen examples of heavy metal armor worn by nights ). Do you have a link to a resource to learn more about this?
- robotomir 5y agoI think shortage of metal was a problem during the bronze age. Because bronze is easily recyclable, my theory is that the Late Bronze Age collapse happened when everyone had a sword. In the Iron age, it's not a question of availability, but of technology, how quickly can you provision a sword and a chainmail for everyone?
- ProjectArcturis 5y agoSwords have always been a fairly rare weapon. Spears and pole-arms offer longer range at much lower cost, particularly in the context of massed infantry battles.
- robotomir 5y agoWhat about armor?
- watersb 5y agoArmor is hard. It slows you down, and you can't hear or see as well as the guy coming up behind you. If you are trained well enough to be effective with metal armor, you're probably trained well enough to be effective without it in close quarters. Heavy plate requires mounted cavalry, but largely negates the maneuverability of horse, and can be brought down with foot trained with pikes or heavy spears. Maybe the metal was best used elsewhere.
- hermitcrab 5y agoMedieval warriors who could afford it wore plate armour, because it was (despite some drawbacks) incredibly effective protection. Many modern tropes (they had to be be winched on to horses, they couldn't get up if they fell over etc) are just plain wrong. The medieval warriors were less educated than us, but they weren't stupid.
- jeltz 5y agoWhat does metal have to do with shields? Metal shields were never popular in medieval Europe. And I also really doubt your assertion that shields were rare.