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I was going to write almost very similar comment. A follow up question will be how badly they want it and are they willing to give up their cars to have a walka

I was going to write almost very similar comment. A follow up question will be how badly they want it and are they willing to give up their cars to have a walkable City and you would immediately see how many are actually interested in it

loa_in_ 5y ago
The sunken cost basically almost doomed the world by now (fossil fuel industry) so there's no way America gives up their cars (for less)
- ethanbond 5y ago
  Of course there is. Just get rid of parking and/or put up bollards.
  - johannes1234321 5y ago
    It's not that easy. For one there is a notable population which will complain and even for those who want to get rid of cars it is a long project: You need to change the city structure. If you have a resedential area without shops to run errands and no workplaces whatsoever people will need to travel long distances each time. Long travel time (whatever the means) means that you don't do grocery shopping for a day or two, but a week or two, which means you carry more and that's only viable by car. Transforming city structure and society takes time.
ganzuul 5y ago
European cities are overrun by electric scooters. It's not a big step. heh
- CaptainZapp 5y ago
  Usually provided by American companies supported by venture capital. As a resident of a very walkable European city I can assure you that most of us didn't ask for those pests.
  - tblt 5y ago
    As a resident of another very walkable European city, I love the ease and affordability of e-scooters. They haven’t replaced walking for me, they’ve replaced the longer trips where I might take a bus, train or taxi. They’re cheaper, more convenient and especially during the pandemic have meant fresh air and the joy of being outside.
  - msla 5y ago
    > Usually provided by American companies supported by venture capital. And bought by Europeans with European money. What's your point, beyond nationalist bickering?
  - elygre 5y ago
    Actually, it seems that European companies have the larger market share in Europe, with Tier (Germany) as #1, Voi (Sweden) as #2, and Bolt (Estonia) as #5. https://mindthezag.com/trends/european-update-360000-e-scooters-available-across-the-continent/ https://mindthezag.com/trends/european-update-360000-e-scoot...
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
If I didn't need it to get to work I wouldn't own a car. I hate them.
nerdponx 5y ago
The problem is that American cities also generally don't have functioning mass transit systems. And even in those that do (New York), they don't always go where you need them to go, so mass transit trips can be 2-3x longer than a car trip. Want to do a big shopping trip? Have more than 1 child you need to move around the city? Want to do more than 1 specific errand in the same afternoon? Without a car, all of this becomes a huge pain in the ass even in New York or Boston, which have extensive networks of subways and buses, let alone anywhere else. And now let's say you want to get out of the city for the weekend. Do you rent a car? That's way more expensive in the long run compared to owning. We would need to fundamentally redesign our cities/towns and transit systems for Americans to be able to give up their cars.
- OJFord 5y ago
  > And now let's say you want to get out of the city for the weekend. Do you rent a car? That's way more expensive in the long run compared to owning. Are you doing it every weekend? Renting a car for just the odd weekend away would be way cheaper than owning. The initial cost / capital depreciation aside even. I live in London and don't have a car, a £50+ train out to my parents' seems a bit absurd next to the cost of a train to Paris, Ryanair flights, or my Netflix subscription. But I could do it every other weekend just for the cost of insuring a (basic, sensible) car. I could probably go more often than I do, take taxis there and back (>2h each way) and still come out ahead vs. car ownership. Really need a 'day to day' (or specialised, such as needing capacity for something, or disabled access) use to make it worthwhile IMO, too many people I think see it as just a 'standard' thing which must be had.
  - maccard 5y ago
    Cars are unfortunately too cheap. My last car was a basic VW polo, and the insurance was £350/year, road tax £99 and probably £200 a year amortized over the 5 years on servicing/wear and year, with a 400 mile range on ~£50 worth of fuel. The break even point on that is ~5-6 trips per year, and much lower if you use the car for basically anything else. I can fly to eastern Europe for £15, but the transit to the airport is more expensive than that in my city.
lumost 5y ago
Zoning is a dragon that even a clear majority can’t slay in many cities. In Boston there is a major controversy that all new construction must have 1 parking space for every 2 condos. Property developers, residents, and everyone else hates this regulation as the people buying these condos aren’t getting cars. You end up with buildings that are 1/3rd empty parking lot. Bear in mind that the most popular neighborhoods of Boston were built in the 1600s without cars in mind.

loa_in_ 5y ago

The sunken cost basically almost doomed the world by now (fossil fuel industry) so there's no way America gives up their cars (for less)

ethanbond 5y ago
Of course there is. Just get rid of parking and/or put up bollards.
- johannes1234321 5y ago
  It's not that easy. For one there is a notable population which will complain and even for those who want to get rid of cars it is a long project: You need to change the city structure. If you have a resedential area without shops to run errands and no workplaces whatsoever people will need to travel long distances each time. Long travel time (whatever the means) means that you don't do grocery shopping for a day or two, but a week or two, which means you carry more and that's only viable by car. Transforming city structure and society takes time.

ganzuul 5y ago

European cities are overrun by electric scooters. It's not a big step. heh

CaptainZapp 5y ago
Usually provided by American companies supported by venture capital. As a resident of a very walkable European city I can assure you that most of us didn't ask for those pests.
- tblt 5y ago
  As a resident of another very walkable European city, I love the ease and affordability of e-scooters. They haven’t replaced walking for me, they’ve replaced the longer trips where I might take a bus, train or taxi. They’re cheaper, more convenient and especially during the pandemic have meant fresh air and the joy of being outside.
- msla 5y ago
  > Usually provided by American companies supported by venture capital. And bought by Europeans with European money. What's your point, beyond nationalist bickering?
- elygre 5y ago
  Actually, it seems that European companies have the larger market share in Europe, with Tier (Germany) as #1, Voi (Sweden) as #2, and Bolt (Estonia) as #5. https://mindthezag.com/trends/european-update-360000-e-scooters-available-across-the-continent/ https://mindthezag.com/trends/european-update-360000-e-scoot...

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago

If I didn't need it to get to work I wouldn't own a car. I hate them.

nerdponx 5y ago

The problem is that American cities also generally don't have functioning mass transit systems. And even in those that do (New York), they don't always go where you need them to go, so mass transit trips can be 2-3x longer than a car trip. Want to do a big shopping trip? Have more than 1 child you need to move around the city? Want to do more than 1 specific errand in the same afternoon? Without a car, all of this becomes a huge pain in the ass even in New York or Boston, which have extensive networks of subways and buses, let alone anywhere else. And now let's say you want to get out of the city for the weekend. Do you rent a car? That's way more expensive in the long run compared to owning. We would need to fundamentally redesign our cities/towns and transit systems for Americans to be able to give up their cars.

OJFord 5y ago
> And now let's say you want to get out of the city for the weekend. Do you rent a car? That's way more expensive in the long run compared to owning. Are you doing it every weekend? Renting a car for just the odd weekend away would be way cheaper than owning. The initial cost / capital depreciation aside even. I live in London and don't have a car, a £50+ train out to my parents' seems a bit absurd next to the cost of a train to Paris, Ryanair flights, or my Netflix subscription. But I could do it every other weekend just for the cost of insuring a (basic, sensible) car. I could probably go more often than I do, take taxis there and back (>2h each way) and still come out ahead vs. car ownership. Really need a 'day to day' (or specialised, such as needing capacity for something, or disabled access) use to make it worthwhile IMO, too many people I think see it as just a 'standard' thing which must be had.
- maccard 5y ago
  Cars are unfortunately too cheap. My last car was a basic VW polo, and the insurance was £350/year, road tax £99 and probably £200 a year amortized over the 5 years on servicing/wear and year, with a 400 mile range on ~£50 worth of fuel. The break even point on that is ~5-6 trips per year, and much lower if you use the car for basically anything else. I can fly to eastern Europe for £15, but the transit to the airport is more expensive than that in my city.

lumost 5y ago

Zoning is a dragon that even a clear majority can’t slay in many cities. In Boston there is a major controversy that all new construction must have 1 parking space for every 2 condos. Property developers, residents, and everyone else hates this regulation as the people buying these condos aren’t getting cars. You end up with buildings that are 1/3rd empty parking lot. Bear in mind that the most popular neighborhoods of Boston were built in the 1600s without cars in mind.