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Google does the same with Google Drive. Apple is just late for the party.

by nicce 5y ago

nelox 5y ago
and Microsoft since 2009: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/photodna https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/photodna Which, in turn, is used by FaceBook, Twitter, etc.
thesimon 5y ago
Apple does the same with iCloud as Google does with Google Drive. Apple just now moved it to scan on the device.
- zikduruqe 5y ago
  Correct. https://9to5mac.com/2020/02/11/child-abuse-images/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/02/11/child-abuse-images/ And if you have your iCloud sync toggle on, since your devices are intended to be uploaded, the client is doing the hashing.
  - nicce 5y ago
    This is different now. They scanned only suspected ones. Now they are expanding it to every user. To avoid same privacy issues as Google is doing (scan everything on cloud), they scan everything on device, and only leaking suspected information to upstream and preventing the upload to stop sharing. IF we can trust that they really scan locally only those files which would end up into the cloud, then this is improvement. But trust is all we have, because the system is already full blackbox. https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_for_Children_Technology_Summary.pdf https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_...
whimsicalism 5y ago
Disingenuous false equivalence for anyone who knows the difference between server side and client side
- nicce 5y ago
  Isn't it bit ironical or naive to trust their current software as it is (which is almost full blackbox), and then speculate what they could do without saying, when they add something? As far as I understand, you can disable this feature, because it is tied to iCloud sync. Based on their spec [1], this feature avoids to do the same as Google and others doing (scan everything on cloud), instead they scan on device, which limits exposed data what Apple sees. So this is improvement compared to other available solutions. [1] https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_for_Children_Technology_Summary.pdf https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_...
  - matwood 5y ago
    Exactly. Many people who are upset about having their images scanned before going to iCloud don't seem to realize all the big providers (Apple, Google, FB, Twitter, MS, etc...) have been scanning images with CSAM for years already. The client side/server side also does not matter because iOS users have had to trust Apple implicitly since day 1. All the 'what ifs' existed whether or not Apple added this feature. I speculate that Apple is going to announce an expansion of E2E to more services at the iPhone event this year, and this feature is getting in front of political complaints that could lead to real privacy destroying legislation/LEO complaints.
    - seanp2k2 5y ago
      This makes the most sense for “why” and “why now” IMO.

Google does the same with Google Drive. Apple is just late for the party.

by nicce 5y ago

Google does the same with Google Drive. Apple is just late for the party.

and Microsoft since 2009: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/photodna https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/photodna Which, in turn, is used by FaceBook, Twitter, etc.

thesimon 5y ago

Apple does the same with iCloud as Google does with Google Drive. Apple just now moved it to scan on the device.

zikduruqe 5y ago
Correct. https://9to5mac.com/2020/02/11/child-abuse-images/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/02/11/child-abuse-images/ And if you have your iCloud sync toggle on, since your devices are intended to be uploaded, the client is doing the hashing.
- nicce 5y ago
  This is different now. They scanned only suspected ones. Now they are expanding it to every user. To avoid same privacy issues as Google is doing (scan everything on cloud), they scan everything on device, and only leaking suspected information to upstream and preventing the upload to stop sharing. IF we can trust that they really scan locally only those files which would end up into the cloud, then this is improvement. But trust is all we have, because the system is already full blackbox. https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_for_Children_Technology_Summary.pdf https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_...

whimsicalism 5y ago

Disingenuous false equivalence for anyone who knows the difference between server side and client side

nicce 5y ago
Isn't it bit ironical or naive to trust their current software as it is (which is almost full blackbox), and then speculate what they could do without saying, when they add something? As far as I understand, you can disable this feature, because it is tied to iCloud sync. Based on their spec [1], this feature avoids to do the same as Google and others doing (scan everything on cloud), instead they scan on device, which limits exposed data what Apple sees. So this is improvement compared to other available solutions. [1] https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_for_Children_Technology_Summary.pdf https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_...
- matwood 5y ago
  Exactly. Many people who are upset about having their images scanned before going to iCloud don't seem to realize all the big providers (Apple, Google, FB, Twitter, MS, etc...) have been scanning images with CSAM for years already. The client side/server side also does not matter because iOS users have had to trust Apple implicitly since day 1. All the 'what ifs' existed whether or not Apple added this feature. I speculate that Apple is going to announce an expansion of E2E to more services at the iPhone event this year, and this feature is getting in front of political complaints that could lead to real privacy destroying legislation/LEO complaints.
  - seanp2k2 5y ago
    This makes the most sense for “why” and “why now” IMO.