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With respect to LaTeX, I only started to use it semi-recently in the cloud and I'd recommend it to anyone (but only in the cloud). I don't want to master an ed

With respect to LaTeX, I only started to use it semi-recently in the cloud and I'd recommend it to anyone (but only in the cloud). I don't want to master an editor anymore. I want to get work done. Pretty much the same with LaTeX. When I want to improve something in a doc, I look it up and do that. When I go back to the doc later, I don't always remember what that magic meant. But that's ok, I'm writing a doc. I'm not trying to master the writing of a doc.

anyfoo 5y ago
I don't want to deeply learn an editor myself anymore, too, but that being said I am still extremely glad that the past decades have made me proficient in emacs. The editor is just one of the most important tools for me.
cpach 5y ago
Just out of curiosity, which editor do you use? Overleaf?
- CalChris 5y ago
  Yes, Overleaf. I'd always had LaTeX envy but when faced with installation and configuration, I gave up again and again. Overleaf solved all that.
  - bkallus 5y ago
    In college we were required to typeset assignments in LaTeX for all the math classes past multivariable calculus. I started out with Overleaf, but switched to local compilation about a year in. It's much nicer to be able to write in my usual text editor and compile documents instantly. On Arch, all I had to do was install texlive-most. It includes every package I have ever needed to use. To compile a document, I just run 'pdflatex *.tex'. Sometimes bibtex too. If you're having trouble with setup and configuration, I recommend texlive.
  - andrepd 5y ago
    >installation and configuration On Linux, literally run the texlive installer script and install an editor like TexStudio if you'd like. That's it.
User23 5y ago
Imagine a carpenter saying, "I don't want to master my tools, I just want to build things."
- sokoloff 5y ago
  There’s mastering the use of your tools and there’s tinkering with the windings on the electric motor inside your tools. Emacs offers users both.
- jrochkind1 5y ago
  How common is it for carpenters to make their own tools? I actually don't know!
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    Did you write Emacs? Did I write Emacs?
  - AlanYx 5y ago
    For a lot of custom carpentry, it's pretty common for carpenters to make their own jigs to solve specific problems (e.g., if you need to use your router a bit like a thickness plane to mill down some object by a couple of millimetres along some axis so it fits somewhere, you probably want to build a jig first).
  - _moof 5y ago
    Pretty common, I think. I've made clamps and rove punches for instance, and I've been tempted to make drill bits. (But this is for wooden boatbuilding, which is its own uniquely crotchety corner of carpentry. Not unlike emacs...)
  - ARandomerDude 5y ago
    For most woodworkers, I'd say the analogy is closest to making "plugins" for existing tools. They require a little knowledge (which easily obtained on YouTube), and can greatly increase your ability to use the base tool. One example is a table saw sled, which helps you make clean, repeatable, 90º cuts. It's one of the most useful "plugins" you can have for your table saw, and relatively easy to make. Making the actual table saw, on the other hand, would be expensive and very difficult, and would require knowledge of many fields (metal working, electrical systems, etc.).
Ar-Curunir 5y ago
The problem with LaTeX is that it isn't well-designed enough that you can just use it without thinking about the magic. When stuff is not up to scratch (image is placed incorrectly, spacing in your table is wrong, your diagram has an incorrect alignment, etc), the error messages suck, and you often need to figure out what the magic does to be able to fix the issue.
marcosdumay 5y ago
The thing with LaTeX is that it's a full text-oriented programing language. What is great if you want to extend it, but a problem if you want to use it on any context not supported by the interpreter. So, if you don't want to create a PDF, it just sucks.
eulgro 5y ago
> With respect to LaTeX, I only started to use it semi-recently in the cloud and I'd recommend it to anyone (but only in the cloud). $ latexmk -pdf main.tex How hard is that? The only thing Overleaf adds here is a button and a 10x compilation time overhead. > I don't always remember what that magic meant. Overleaf mostly won't help you here, unless I'm mistaken. I don't mean to be aggressive here, I just don't get the Overleaf hype. What's wrong with good old text editor + version control? I think I'll pass on the slow web app for now. At least they have Git integration so nobody is going to force me to use it.
- remexre 5y ago
  How do you do package (version) management for LaTeX? There's more than a few documents I've come across that won't build on my system, giving often-indecipherable compilation errors. Overleaf at least ensures everyone involved is using the same environment without needing to ship a Docker container or the like, or try to pin down versions.
  - eulgro 5y ago
    I suppose it should be fairly portable, except for missing packages maybe. In my case I have literally every common package installed so that's not an issue. But LaTeX errors are a real pain, I'll admit that.
  - Filligree 5y ago
    Nix has a decent solution here, i.e. turn the document into a nix derivation. with import <nixpkgs> {}; pkgs.runCommand "cv.pdf" rec { src = ./cv.tex; bin = with pkgs.texlive; combine { inherit scheme-medium collection-latexrecommended collection-fontsextra moderncv etoolbox; }; buildInputs = [ bin ]; allowSubstitutes = false; } '' ln -s $src cv.tex latexmk -pdf cv.tex mkdir $out mv *pdf $out/ '' These days I'd probably use flakes to pin down the latex version.
- moron4hire 5y ago
  Lol, that's not the command for making a LaTeX document. The command for making a LaTeX document fills a sheet for all the shit you have to install--half of which isn't correct on whatever documentation you're reading--and THEN you can `latexmk`. And I do mean you. I gave up after a solid week. I'll just make whatever I want in PowerPoint, save it to a PDF, and be done in 15 minutes. Yes, I said PowerPoint. Set you're slides to 8.5x11 and it became a typesetting program. I've started getting my coworkers to use it for such and they are absolutely delighted by the bump in design quality they are getting because they aren't fighting Word anymore.
lenkite 5y ago
Use pandoc

anyfoo 5y ago

I don't want to deeply learn an editor myself anymore, too, but that being said I am still extremely glad that the past decades have made me proficient in emacs. The editor is just one of the most important tools for me.

cpach 5y ago

Just out of curiosity, which editor do you use? Overleaf?

CalChris 5y ago
Yes, Overleaf. I'd always had LaTeX envy but when faced with installation and configuration, I gave up again and again. Overleaf solved all that.
- bkallus 5y ago
  In college we were required to typeset assignments in LaTeX for all the math classes past multivariable calculus. I started out with Overleaf, but switched to local compilation about a year in. It's much nicer to be able to write in my usual text editor and compile documents instantly. On Arch, all I had to do was install texlive-most. It includes every package I have ever needed to use. To compile a document, I just run 'pdflatex *.tex'. Sometimes bibtex too. If you're having trouble with setup and configuration, I recommend texlive.
- andrepd 5y ago
  >installation and configuration On Linux, literally run the texlive installer script and install an editor like TexStudio if you'd like. That's it.

User23 5y ago

Imagine a carpenter saying, "I don't want to master my tools, I just want to build things."

sokoloff 5y ago
There’s mastering the use of your tools and there’s tinkering with the windings on the electric motor inside your tools. Emacs offers users both.
jrochkind1 5y ago
How common is it for carpenters to make their own tools? I actually don't know!
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  Did you write Emacs? Did I write Emacs?
- AlanYx 5y ago
  For a lot of custom carpentry, it's pretty common for carpenters to make their own jigs to solve specific problems (e.g., if you need to use your router a bit like a thickness plane to mill down some object by a couple of millimetres along some axis so it fits somewhere, you probably want to build a jig first).
- _moof 5y ago
  Pretty common, I think. I've made clamps and rove punches for instance, and I've been tempted to make drill bits. (But this is for wooden boatbuilding, which is its own uniquely crotchety corner of carpentry. Not unlike emacs...)
- ARandomerDude 5y ago
  For most woodworkers, I'd say the analogy is closest to making "plugins" for existing tools. They require a little knowledge (which easily obtained on YouTube), and can greatly increase your ability to use the base tool. One example is a table saw sled, which helps you make clean, repeatable, 90º cuts. It's one of the most useful "plugins" you can have for your table saw, and relatively easy to make. Making the actual table saw, on the other hand, would be expensive and very difficult, and would require knowledge of many fields (metal working, electrical systems, etc.).

Ar-Curunir 5y ago

The problem with LaTeX is that it isn't well-designed enough that you can just use it without thinking about the magic. When stuff is not up to scratch (image is placed incorrectly, spacing in your table is wrong, your diagram has an incorrect alignment, etc), the error messages suck, and you often need to figure out what the magic does to be able to fix the issue.

marcosdumay 5y ago

The thing with LaTeX is that it's a full text-oriented programing language. What is great if you want to extend it, but a problem if you want to use it on any context not supported by the interpreter. So, if you don't want to create a PDF, it just sucks.

eulgro 5y ago

> With respect to LaTeX, I only started to use it semi-recently in the cloud and I'd recommend it to anyone (but only in the cloud). $ latexmk -pdf main.tex How hard is that? The only thing Overleaf adds here is a button and a 10x compilation time overhead. > I don't always remember what that magic meant. Overleaf mostly won't help you here, unless I'm mistaken. I don't mean to be aggressive here, I just don't get the Overleaf hype. What's wrong with good old text editor + version control? I think I'll pass on the slow web app for now. At least they have Git integration so nobody is going to force me to use it.

remexre 5y ago
How do you do package (version) management for LaTeX? There's more than a few documents I've come across that won't build on my system, giving often-indecipherable compilation errors. Overleaf at least ensures everyone involved is using the same environment without needing to ship a Docker container or the like, or try to pin down versions.
- eulgro 5y ago
  I suppose it should be fairly portable, except for missing packages maybe. In my case I have literally every common package installed so that's not an issue. But LaTeX errors are a real pain, I'll admit that.
- Filligree 5y ago
  Nix has a decent solution here, i.e. turn the document into a nix derivation. with import <nixpkgs> {}; pkgs.runCommand "cv.pdf" rec { src = ./cv.tex; bin = with pkgs.texlive; combine { inherit scheme-medium collection-latexrecommended collection-fontsextra moderncv etoolbox; }; buildInputs = [ bin ]; allowSubstitutes = false; } '' ln -s $src cv.tex latexmk -pdf cv.tex mkdir $out mv *pdf $out/ '' These days I'd probably use flakes to pin down the latex version.
moron4hire 5y ago
Lol, that's not the command for making a LaTeX document. The command for making a LaTeX document fills a sheet for all the shit you have to install--half of which isn't correct on whatever documentation you're reading--and THEN you can `latexmk`. And I do mean you. I gave up after a solid week. I'll just make whatever I want in PowerPoint, save it to a PDF, and be done in 15 minutes. Yes, I said PowerPoint. Set you're slides to 8.5x11 and it became a typesetting program. I've started getting my coworkers to use it for such and they are absolutely delighted by the bump in design quality they are getting because they aren't fighting Word anymore.

lenkite 5y ago

Use pandoc