5 ms·

The only thing I'd struggle to lose is a map (Google Maps/Apple Maps). For me, it's essential if I'm going somewhere unfamiliar.

catmanjan 5y ago
The feature phones do have google maps, but from what I've read they all take some time to acquire a lock (could be a software issue?)
- withinboredom 5y ago
  Probably hardware. GPS either requires a bootstrap starting point or it has to completely solve the equations to calculate the location (slow!). Expensive phones triangulate via towers (fast!) and use that to bootstrap the GPS unit. Some GPS units don’t support that bootstrapping and are, thus, slower.
vaylian 5y ago
Doesn't good old https://maps.google.com https://maps.google.com or https://osm.org https://osm.org work on phones without apps?
- c7DJTLrn 5y ago
  I don't know, would it? It requires fairly modern browser features that I don't remember the old school phones' browsers having.
- sildur 5y ago
  The mobile web interface of Google Maps is hideous and unusable. I had to use it from time to time, when OSM didn't have the data I needed, and I regretted every second of it.
  - llampx 5y ago
    It's by design so you use the app
mdp2021 5y ago
Just take a mobile device and avoid matching it to any identity, if - like many - you have needed pocket computing power since forever and since forever you have been a private individual.
- c7DJTLrn 5y ago
  That's not really possible. iPhones require an iCloud account which even if not directly linked to you, serves as a pool of information that Apple can gather about you and work out your identity from. The second you switch on your phone, it connects to several cell towers and enables your position to be triangulated. As you move around between work, home, the shops, it's constantly informing the providers of your location. Even if you switch SIMs regularly, your device's IMSI number is static and serves as a unique fingerprint. Conveniently, spoofing IMSI numbers is illegal. Guess why. Theoretically it might be possible to combat cell tower triangulation by having the modem only respond to one tower at a time and insert artificial latency to make it harder to work out your distance. But, another convenient fact: cell modems are all closed source, proprietary black boxes. They also have DMA (Direct Memory Access) to your phone. Perhaps I should be wearing a tinfoil hat but these don't seem like coincidences to me. They seem like intentional measures to weaponise a tool in our everyday lives.
  - ElFitz 5y ago
    > iPhones require an iCloud account Nope. I have several dev devices. None of which have an iCloud account setup. Didn’t do anything special; just skipped it at setup.
Semaphor 5y ago
Most online banking sites in Germany require a phone nowadays, some even one that passes Google safety net for Android phones.
- timakro 5y ago
  Some banks in Germany support chipTAN which doesn't require a phone. You can find a list of banks supporting chipTAN here: https://www.kostenloser-girokonto-vergleich.de/diese-banken-bieten-hbci-oder-chiptan-mit-tan-generator-an/ https://www.kostenloser-girokonto-vergleich.de/diese-banken-...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Semaphor 5y ago
    That list is outdated. I was doubtful DKB (which you can’t even use with rooted Android devices, I had to cancel my account via customer support because they decided to cut me off with a minor update) allows chipTAN, and the latest comment is that they stopped supporting it.
    - dvdkhlng 5y ago
      I'm regularly using chipTAN with a stand-alone TAN generator (similar to [1], based on optical flicker-code) for a DKB account. No problems so far. Deutsche bank uses PhotoTAN, which supports hardware TAN generators [2]. Some banks use different but similar TAN generators (e.g. SecurePlus [3]), and I also witnessed Postbank accounts operated with USB-based TAN generators [4] called "BestSign". [1] https://www.voelkner.de/products/476429/REINER-SCT-tanJack-optic-CX-TAN-Generator.html?offer=00fccd0e63f9b64402340a52708601e4 https://www.voelkner.de/products/476429/REINER-SCT-tanJack-o... [2] https://genostore.de/db/phototan-lesegeraet/92/phototan-lesegeraet-digipass-760-deutsche-bank https://genostore.de/db/phototan-lesegeraet/92/phototan-lese... [3] https://cb.kobilshop.com/secureplus-generator/1/secureplus-generator https://cb.kobilshop.com/secureplus-generator/1/secureplus-g... securePlus Generator [4] https://www.seal-one.com/devices.en#DiVc3100KLink https://www.seal-one.com/devices.en#DiVc3100KLink BestSign
pcdoodle 5y ago
I just picked up a tom-tom on ebay for $30.00, I forgot how awesome having a dedicated GPS can be. No hot phone, no worries about data connection.
damontal 5y ago
My 10 year old Garmin still works and I can get updated maps on it if I ever need it.
masijo 5y ago
I think a good balance between usability and privacy is to use LineageOS with MicroG (an open implementation of GApps APIs) or something like Sailfish OS.

catmanjan 5y ago

The feature phones do have google maps, but from what I've read they all take some time to acquire a lock (could be a software issue?)

withinboredom 5y ago
Probably hardware. GPS either requires a bootstrap starting point or it has to completely solve the equations to calculate the location (slow!). Expensive phones triangulate via towers (fast!) and use that to bootstrap the GPS unit. Some GPS units don’t support that bootstrapping and are, thus, slower.

vaylian 5y ago

Doesn't good old https://maps.google.com https://maps.google.com or https://osm.org https://osm.org work on phones without apps?

c7DJTLrn 5y ago
I don't know, would it? It requires fairly modern browser features that I don't remember the old school phones' browsers having.
sildur 5y ago
The mobile web interface of Google Maps is hideous and unusable. I had to use it from time to time, when OSM didn't have the data I needed, and I regretted every second of it.
- llampx 5y ago
  It's by design so you use the app

mdp2021 5y ago

Just take a mobile device and avoid matching it to any identity, if - like many - you have needed pocket computing power since forever and since forever you have been a private individual.

c7DJTLrn 5y ago
That's not really possible. iPhones require an iCloud account which even if not directly linked to you, serves as a pool of information that Apple can gather about you and work out your identity from. The second you switch on your phone, it connects to several cell towers and enables your position to be triangulated. As you move around between work, home, the shops, it's constantly informing the providers of your location. Even if you switch SIMs regularly, your device's IMSI number is static and serves as a unique fingerprint. Conveniently, spoofing IMSI numbers is illegal. Guess why. Theoretically it might be possible to combat cell tower triangulation by having the modem only respond to one tower at a time and insert artificial latency to make it harder to work out your distance. But, another convenient fact: cell modems are all closed source, proprietary black boxes. They also have DMA (Direct Memory Access) to your phone. Perhaps I should be wearing a tinfoil hat but these don't seem like coincidences to me. They seem like intentional measures to weaponise a tool in our everyday lives.
- ElFitz 5y ago
  > iPhones require an iCloud account Nope. I have several dev devices. None of which have an iCloud account setup. Didn’t do anything special; just skipped it at setup.

Semaphor 5y ago

Most online banking sites in Germany require a phone nowadays, some even one that passes Google safety net for Android phones.

timakro 5y ago
Some banks in Germany support chipTAN which doesn't require a phone. You can find a list of banks supporting chipTAN here: https://www.kostenloser-girokonto-vergleich.de/diese-banken-bieten-hbci-oder-chiptan-mit-tan-generator-an/ https://www.kostenloser-girokonto-vergleich.de/diese-banken-...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Semaphor 5y ago
  That list is outdated. I was doubtful DKB (which you can’t even use with rooted Android devices, I had to cancel my account via customer support because they decided to cut me off with a minor update) allows chipTAN, and the latest comment is that they stopped supporting it.
  - dvdkhlng 5y ago
    I'm regularly using chipTAN with a stand-alone TAN generator (similar to [1], based on optical flicker-code) for a DKB account. No problems so far. Deutsche bank uses PhotoTAN, which supports hardware TAN generators [2]. Some banks use different but similar TAN generators (e.g. SecurePlus [3]), and I also witnessed Postbank accounts operated with USB-based TAN generators [4] called "BestSign". [1] https://www.voelkner.de/products/476429/REINER-SCT-tanJack-optic-CX-TAN-Generator.html?offer=00fccd0e63f9b64402340a52708601e4 https://www.voelkner.de/products/476429/REINER-SCT-tanJack-o... [2] https://genostore.de/db/phototan-lesegeraet/92/phototan-lesegeraet-digipass-760-deutsche-bank https://genostore.de/db/phototan-lesegeraet/92/phototan-lese... [3] https://cb.kobilshop.com/secureplus-generator/1/secureplus-generator https://cb.kobilshop.com/secureplus-generator/1/secureplus-g... securePlus Generator [4] https://www.seal-one.com/devices.en#DiVc3100KLink https://www.seal-one.com/devices.en#DiVc3100KLink BestSign

pcdoodle 5y ago

I just picked up a tom-tom on ebay for $30.00, I forgot how awesome having a dedicated GPS can be. No hot phone, no worries about data connection.

damontal 5y ago

My 10 year old Garmin still works and I can get updated maps on it if I ever need it.

masijo 5y ago

I think a good balance between usability and privacy is to use LineageOS with MicroG (an open implementation of GApps APIs) or something like Sailfish OS.