4 ms·

An RN I know in New Orleans makes a paltry $28 / hour. Insidiously, they gave her 10k upfront for a 3 year contract. If she leaves, she has to give it back. She

An RN I know in New Orleans makes a paltry $28 / hour. Insidiously, they gave her 10k upfront for a 3 year contract. If she leaves, she has to give it back. She put it straight to her student loans so now she’s stuck there. I agree with op, we say we love our front line workers, but that’s just talk. I’m not sure but there’s not much of a union for them down there.

nwellinghoff 5y ago
News flash. There is no way they can get that money back. She can walk at anytime
- JohnBooty 5y ago
  Can you back this up? Labor laws vary significantly by country/state.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- Jtsummers 5y ago
  This would largely depend on the particular contract. Money can be paid conditioned on an expectation of working for a period of time. Failure to meet your end can result in having to pay it back (in full or in part).
  - R0b0t1 5y ago
    Case in TX where this was overturned. Employer was Buc-ees. The amount in question was far higher, about $100k, as the employee was given a $X/hr raise contingent on at least Y years of service. Court ruled contract violated right to work. This may mean bonus clawbacks can't work.
    - Jtsummers 5y ago
      https://cases.justia.com/texas/fourteenth-court-of-appeals/2017-14-15-01061-cv.pdf?ts=1507810495 https://cases.justia.com/texas/fourteenth-court-of-appeals/2... Interesting case. I'm not a lawyer and have only given this a quick read, but it seems that the amount she could owe back was essentially unbounded, the longer she was there the more she could owe back. That was a major factor in the decision against Buc-ee's. See pages 8 and 9, in particular. I don't think this would work against bonus claw backs in general, only if they were similarly considered unreasonable and also only in TX, whose laws were violated in this case. (EDIT: Or states with similar laws, obviously.) A $10k signing bonus that has a bounded and shorter obligation period could be considered reasonable. > As noted above, an enforceable covenant must contain limitations as to time, geographic area, and scope of activity to be restrained that are reasonable and do not impose a greater restraint than necessary to protect the employer’s business interest. https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/BC/htm/BC.15.htm https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/BC/htm/BC.15.htm Sections 15.50 and 15.51 are the relevant parts.
MattGaiser 5y ago
Just ask for a signing bonus at the next job. Definitely heard of signing bonuses that size with agencies for nursing.
- 1123581321 5y ago
  Exactly this. In fact competing employers should be expecting to buy out this clawback if her current employer commonly does this.
bastardoperator 5y ago
Most employers don't go after employees for these because the employee has already paid taxes on the money and the business itself has written the money off. Having to go back and change taxes or sue an employee typically isn't worth the cost of the bonus itself. This is also null and void if they're violating her rights, like the ability to use the bathroom or take a lunch break. Last, 28 / hour is fairly low for an RN. While indeed shows a median salary of 28.30 in New Orleans, it seems like most companies in the area are hiring at 54-64 dollars per hour setting the median for the pandemic at 46.52 per hour. If she can nearly double her pay, who cares about 10k... I've never seen a company try to enforce these.
- bigmattystyles 5y ago
  I guess the company can bluff the employees pretty easily. They’re not exactly rolling in it (employees) either or have much spare time. If you get one strongly worded letter or ‘reminder’ from HR, I’d venture most would fold rather than go to an attorney.
  - user5994461 5y ago
    It's not bluff. It's common to have claw back clauses on sign-on bonus or trainings, for a limited period (3 years might be too long though). The comment you reply to is giving really bad advice to ignore it. That sort of clause is valid and the company may or may not action it. You don't know. What your friend should do is interview for other companies and mentions to the HR interview that she has to refund 10k if she leaves now, and ask whether they would be able to cover it. It's routine for companies to offer a sign-on bonus to cover this sort of things and you can expect the same claw back clause attached for one year. Alternatively, if she has the money AND can get a job that pays significantly more, she can switch anyway, the worst that can happen is that she has to pay some money if the company asks.
    - selimthegrim 5y ago
      They are desperate down here with COVID, she can probably call their bluff and win.
FireBeyond 5y ago
Yeah, here in the PNW, I could point her to two companies that will give her work at her choice of hospitals for $65/hr, with "as much work as she wants". Don't start me on EMTs working 24 or 48 hour shifts for $11/hr.

nwellinghoff 5y ago

News flash. There is no way they can get that money back. She can walk at anytime

JohnBooty 5y ago
Can you back this up? Labor laws vary significantly by country/state.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
Jtsummers 5y ago
This would largely depend on the particular contract. Money can be paid conditioned on an expectation of working for a period of time. Failure to meet your end can result in having to pay it back (in full or in part).
- R0b0t1 5y ago
  Case in TX where this was overturned. Employer was Buc-ees. The amount in question was far higher, about $100k, as the employee was given a $X/hr raise contingent on at least Y years of service. Court ruled contract violated right to work. This may mean bonus clawbacks can't work.
  - Jtsummers 5y ago
    https://cases.justia.com/texas/fourteenth-court-of-appeals/2017-14-15-01061-cv.pdf?ts=1507810495 https://cases.justia.com/texas/fourteenth-court-of-appeals/2... Interesting case. I'm not a lawyer and have only given this a quick read, but it seems that the amount she could owe back was essentially unbounded, the longer she was there the more she could owe back. That was a major factor in the decision against Buc-ee's. See pages 8 and 9, in particular. I don't think this would work against bonus claw backs in general, only if they were similarly considered unreasonable and also only in TX, whose laws were violated in this case. (EDIT: Or states with similar laws, obviously.) A $10k signing bonus that has a bounded and shorter obligation period could be considered reasonable. > As noted above, an enforceable covenant must contain limitations as to time, geographic area, and scope of activity to be restrained that are reasonable and do not impose a greater restraint than necessary to protect the employer’s business interest. https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/BC/htm/BC.15.htm https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/BC/htm/BC.15.htm Sections 15.50 and 15.51 are the relevant parts.

MattGaiser 5y ago

Just ask for a signing bonus at the next job. Definitely heard of signing bonuses that size with agencies for nursing.

1123581321 5y ago
Exactly this. In fact competing employers should be expecting to buy out this clawback if her current employer commonly does this.

bastardoperator 5y ago

Most employers don't go after employees for these because the employee has already paid taxes on the money and the business itself has written the money off. Having to go back and change taxes or sue an employee typically isn't worth the cost of the bonus itself. This is also null and void if they're violating her rights, like the ability to use the bathroom or take a lunch break. Last, 28 / hour is fairly low for an RN. While indeed shows a median salary of 28.30 in New Orleans, it seems like most companies in the area are hiring at 54-64 dollars per hour setting the median for the pandemic at 46.52 per hour. If she can nearly double her pay, who cares about 10k... I've never seen a company try to enforce these.

bigmattystyles 5y ago
I guess the company can bluff the employees pretty easily. They’re not exactly rolling in it (employees) either or have much spare time. If you get one strongly worded letter or ‘reminder’ from HR, I’d venture most would fold rather than go to an attorney.
- user5994461 5y ago
  It's not bluff. It's common to have claw back clauses on sign-on bonus or trainings, for a limited period (3 years might be too long though). The comment you reply to is giving really bad advice to ignore it. That sort of clause is valid and the company may or may not action it. You don't know. What your friend should do is interview for other companies and mentions to the HR interview that she has to refund 10k if she leaves now, and ask whether they would be able to cover it. It's routine for companies to offer a sign-on bonus to cover this sort of things and you can expect the same claw back clause attached for one year. Alternatively, if she has the money AND can get a job that pays significantly more, she can switch anyway, the worst that can happen is that she has to pay some money if the company asks.
  - selimthegrim 5y ago
    They are desperate down here with COVID, she can probably call their bluff and win.

FireBeyond 5y ago

Yeah, here in the PNW, I could point her to two companies that will give her work at her choice of hospitals for $65/hr, with "as much work as she wants". Don't start me on EMTs working 24 or 48 hour shifts for $11/hr.