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I admire your optimism for the marketplace of ideas but ultimately fear it bears little relation to reality. Not only are humans are terrible at making objectiv

by altacc 5y ago

I admire your optimism for the marketplace of ideas but ultimately fear it bears little relation to reality. Not only are humans are terrible at making objective & rational choices but the marketplace itself is far from fair and balanced with regard to how people are exposed to ideas & positions. The marketplace assumes that humans are in general rational, decent and not purely motivated by self-interest or groupthink. The wide range of ideological forces and prejudices that exist in the world easily dispel this idea. Even within a single mind we see people regularly holding two contradictory beliefs and accepting both of them, so if the marketplace of ideas fails in a single mind then I think is has little luck when it encounters large populations.

deleted 5y ago
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raxxorrax 5y ago
The marketplace of ideas doesn't always work. Same is true for art, the most popular isn't necessary the best. I have no illusions about this. But I have to compare it to the alternatives and those do not convince at all. There is no purely rational and selfless comittee. How would such a group be less self-interested and less vulnerable to group-think? Or less ideological or prejudiced? Because they have some self-imposed mission to a higher cause? Who doesn't? You can have your benevolent dictator that handles logistical problems of exposure to ideas, but the less error prone way to get the best ideas implemented is a mechanism to boot him out, or in other words, his ideas need justification on the marketplace of ideas. So I must always allow objections.
gus_massa 5y ago
How do you prevent the creation of McCarthyism 2.0? After all the current form of government is the best one, and anyone that says otherwise is spreading misinformation and must be deplatformed. In the pro-choise vs pro-life case, should the wrong side be blocked from publishing adds? What about drinking alcohol at 18? It's legal in most of the world. Who is going to decide in each case? Are you sure they will have the same opinion than you?
- altacc 5y ago
  It's true that this approach limits variance of reasonable opinion to within the Overton window (plus a bit or radical thinking either side). That is pretty much how society functions anyway. The window moves slowly but does get moved by many factors.

by altacc 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

raxxorrax 5y ago

The marketplace of ideas doesn't always work. Same is true for art, the most popular isn't necessary the best. I have no illusions about this. But I have to compare it to the alternatives and those do not convince at all. There is no purely rational and selfless comittee. How would such a group be less self-interested and less vulnerable to group-think? Or less ideological or prejudiced? Because they have some self-imposed mission to a higher cause? Who doesn't? You can have your benevolent dictator that handles logistical problems of exposure to ideas, but the less error prone way to get the best ideas implemented is a mechanism to boot him out, or in other words, his ideas need justification on the marketplace of ideas. So I must always allow objections.

gus_massa 5y ago

How do you prevent the creation of McCarthyism 2.0? After all the current form of government is the best one, and anyone that says otherwise is spreading misinformation and must be deplatformed. In the pro-choise vs pro-life case, should the wrong side be blocked from publishing adds? What about drinking alcohol at 18? It's legal in most of the world. Who is going to decide in each case? Are you sure they will have the same opinion than you?

altacc 5y ago
It's true that this approach limits variance of reasonable opinion to within the Overton window (plus a bit or radical thinking either side). That is pretty much how society functions anyway. The window moves slowly but does get moved by many factors.