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Now the question is are most of the comments on this thread examples or are they the social conditioned response of Chinese citizens abroad showing the flag. I

Now the question is are most of the comments on this thread examples or are they the social conditioned response of Chinese citizens abroad showing the flag. It can get pretty creepy how aggressive students - for example - get supporting their government. That flash mob behavior isn't as effective as the Russian's conflict stoking troll farms, but man does it drown out conversation, and god help you if you run into it in person.

throwSZ99 5y ago
Why should Westerners care about a "sprawling network of more than 350 fake social media profiles" when our own governments have been lying to us and spewing propaganda about almost everything of importance for DECADES? See my comment about GCHQ's JTRIG unit elsewhere on this page. Western propaganda campaigns are often a prelude to war. And they usually deploy several orders of magnitude more assets than "350 fake social media profiles." Remember WMDs in Iraq, Libya and Gaddafi, babies in incubators? I have no interest in unquestioningly accepting the BBC's version of what's important. If we let our psycho warmongers start another war based on lies, millions will die on both sides. See Thucydides Trap: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides_Trap https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides_Trap
- 0dayz 5y ago
  Its quite peculiar you only post on topics that are about China. Since you seem like a peace loving person then what do you think about what is happening in Xinjiang? Also to debunk your obvious whataboutism. First of wmd in Iraq has been confirmed before the Iraq War even happen. Baby in incubator was something kuwait said to the us not the other way around. Lastly never heard about wmd in Libya since they scrap it in 2003.
  - krageon 5y ago
    > wmd in Iraq has been confirmed They never existed and it would frankly be an enormous stretch of the imagination to think intelligence services are so earth-shatteringly incompetent that they would not be aware of this fact.
    - codewench 5y ago
      Not coming down on either side of this, bit Iraq's use of chemical weapons against their Kurdish population [0] is well documented. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_chemical_weapons_program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_chemical_weapons_program
- vajow46267 5y ago
  Such an excellent example of whataboutism! You have no interest in accepting any BBC version of events because you prefer comfortable confirmation bias from blogs and the twitterati?
hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
Yeah I remember I had a colleague, a Chinese student, very nice person, we were going along nicely, until one day I mentioned the Dalai Lama, and he exploded. It seems like the brainwashing was very successful - he believed that the DL was a monster, killer, some demonic being aiming at the destruction of China and so on. I couldn't believe my ears. This person seemed otherwise completely normal.
- serial_dev 5y ago
  I don't think it's a Chinese-only thing. I had a coworker from Spain, he was very "balanced" and reasonable on all things. One day, during the 2017 Catalan independence protests and referendum, we (non-Spanish people) tried to understand the different arguments and the current situation, and someone mentioned that IF (we didn't say it was the case, we said IF) one day the overwhelming majority of Catalonia wants to leave Spain for whatever reason, an option for "amicable" split would be preferable over a revolution. He completely snapped, said all kinds of very mean things about Catalonia, that I don't want to repeat here, but my point is that it's very difficult to view these things from a different perspective and do not get emotional if all your life you heard only one perspective. I noticed similar tendencies from people from every country that are in the news and are somewhat controversial (Israel, Palestine, Pakistan, US, Poland, Ireland just to name a few).
  - _tik_ 5y ago
    Twelve people were killed because of cartoons
  - calgoo 5y ago
    As someone who lives in Barcelona, it was a very strange time. The propaganda machine went into full swing, and they made the rest of the country hate everyone here. We heard rumours of higher up military generals suggesting that they send tanks to Barcelona to scare the people etc. It still feels like it was just governments using it to split the people against each other instead of focusing on several political scandals that where going on.
  - beaunative 5y ago
notahacker 5y ago
I recall the online version of our student newspaper once wrote an article with some fairly generic criticisms of China's government having a very interesting comments section that week (the guy who wrote the article went on to be a journalist for the FT) Then I recall reading forums full of British supposedly mature adults reacting with similarly preposterous rage to a non-story about an Oxford college taking down a picture of the Queen, and I'm absolutely certain the Royal Family weren't paying them... Pretty sure that China's actual paid propagandists are doing the difficult job of changing the focus of the attack when evidence of government shortcomings surfaces on Chinese message boards, not hanging around on niche English language forums which categorise politics as "off topic" in case California-based computer programmers' views of China aren't universally positive (or for that matter bombarding student publications of with the sort of outraged anonymous comments that look... actually pretty similar in tone to the letters to the editor by named undergraduates)
pydry 5y ago
Which comments specifically? I've never seen anything that looks like wumao on HN. On reddit theyre usually pretty obvious.
- parrellel 5y ago
  You know, I was going to go and link the comments that made me post that in the first place but they seem to have been eaten or buried while I was asleep (or seemed worse because it was 3 in the morning) But! For less extreme examples, check out the discussion of the occupation of Tibet that spontaneously generated under my first comment and: > Meanwhile the BBC pushes anti-China propaganda in plain sight. > I wonder how it stacks up to the fake network pushing anti-China propaganda. > Brought to you by the 5 eyes propaganda machine: Bullshit Broadcasting Corporation > I find using the term “concentration camp” for something that resembles a youth correctional facility somewhat dishonest.
approxim8ion 5y ago
Yes, only Americans seem to have any degree of agency or capability of having unbiased discussions online.
- birksherty 5y ago
  I don't see comments that heavily support us gov and try to change topics like the chinese one do. So your sarcasm is false and let's not change the topic here again.
- parrellel 5y ago
  God no, we've got our own bizarre horrorshows. But I don't think I've ever seen that political reflex as strongly in Americans nearly as much. It's like for some topics (Tibet, Human Rights, Tienanmen, etc) they're stuck at the height of the Freedom Fries / Dixie Chicks rage machine after 9/11.
windoze123 5y ago
Just post something about india and trolls from that country will similarly pop up. I dont understand what is it with failing countries and whitewashing their internet image using trolls. Just fix your bloody and stop spamming.
dang 5y ago
You broke the site guidelines badly here. Please don't do that on HN again. We have this rule for good, extremely well-supported-by-data reasons: "Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html You can read many years' worth of past explanations if you want to understand more: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturf https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20-recycling%20chin&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

throwSZ99 5y ago

Why should Westerners care about a "sprawling network of more than 350 fake social media profiles" when our own governments have been lying to us and spewing propaganda about almost everything of importance for DECADES? See my comment about GCHQ's JTRIG unit elsewhere on this page. Western propaganda campaigns are often a prelude to war. And they usually deploy several orders of magnitude more assets than "350 fake social media profiles." Remember WMDs in Iraq, Libya and Gaddafi, babies in incubators? I have no interest in unquestioningly accepting the BBC's version of what's important. If we let our psycho warmongers start another war based on lies, millions will die on both sides. See Thucydides Trap: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides_Trap https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides_Trap

0dayz 5y ago
Its quite peculiar you only post on topics that are about China. Since you seem like a peace loving person then what do you think about what is happening in Xinjiang? Also to debunk your obvious whataboutism. First of wmd in Iraq has been confirmed before the Iraq War even happen. Baby in incubator was something kuwait said to the us not the other way around. Lastly never heard about wmd in Libya since they scrap it in 2003.
- krageon 5y ago
  > wmd in Iraq has been confirmed They never existed and it would frankly be an enormous stretch of the imagination to think intelligence services are so earth-shatteringly incompetent that they would not be aware of this fact.
  - codewench 5y ago
    Not coming down on either side of this, bit Iraq's use of chemical weapons against their Kurdish population [0] is well documented. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_chemical_weapons_program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_chemical_weapons_program
vajow46267 5y ago
Such an excellent example of whataboutism! You have no interest in accepting any BBC version of events because you prefer comfortable confirmation bias from blogs and the twitterati?

hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago

Yeah I remember I had a colleague, a Chinese student, very nice person, we were going along nicely, until one day I mentioned the Dalai Lama, and he exploded. It seems like the brainwashing was very successful - he believed that the DL was a monster, killer, some demonic being aiming at the destruction of China and so on. I couldn't believe my ears. This person seemed otherwise completely normal.

serial_dev 5y ago
I don't think it's a Chinese-only thing. I had a coworker from Spain, he was very "balanced" and reasonable on all things. One day, during the 2017 Catalan independence protests and referendum, we (non-Spanish people) tried to understand the different arguments and the current situation, and someone mentioned that IF (we didn't say it was the case, we said IF) one day the overwhelming majority of Catalonia wants to leave Spain for whatever reason, an option for "amicable" split would be preferable over a revolution. He completely snapped, said all kinds of very mean things about Catalonia, that I don't want to repeat here, but my point is that it's very difficult to view these things from a different perspective and do not get emotional if all your life you heard only one perspective. I noticed similar tendencies from people from every country that are in the news and are somewhat controversial (Israel, Palestine, Pakistan, US, Poland, Ireland just to name a few).
- _tik_ 5y ago
  Twelve people were killed because of cartoons
- calgoo 5y ago
  As someone who lives in Barcelona, it was a very strange time. The propaganda machine went into full swing, and they made the rest of the country hate everyone here. We heard rumours of higher up military generals suggesting that they send tanks to Barcelona to scare the people etc. It still feels like it was just governments using it to split the people against each other instead of focusing on several political scandals that where going on.
- beaunative 5y ago

notahacker 5y ago

I recall the online version of our student newspaper once wrote an article with some fairly generic criticisms of China's government having a very interesting comments section that week (the guy who wrote the article went on to be a journalist for the FT) Then I recall reading forums full of British supposedly mature adults reacting with similarly preposterous rage to a non-story about an Oxford college taking down a picture of the Queen, and I'm absolutely certain the Royal Family weren't paying them... Pretty sure that China's actual paid propagandists are doing the difficult job of changing the focus of the attack when evidence of government shortcomings surfaces on Chinese message boards, not hanging around on niche English language forums which categorise politics as "off topic" in case California-based computer programmers' views of China aren't universally positive (or for that matter bombarding student publications of with the sort of outraged anonymous comments that look... actually pretty similar in tone to the letters to the editor by named undergraduates)

pydry 5y ago

Which comments specifically? I've never seen anything that looks like wumao on HN. On reddit theyre usually pretty obvious.

parrellel 5y ago
You know, I was going to go and link the comments that made me post that in the first place but they seem to have been eaten or buried while I was asleep (or seemed worse because it was 3 in the morning) But! For less extreme examples, check out the discussion of the occupation of Tibet that spontaneously generated under my first comment and: > Meanwhile the BBC pushes anti-China propaganda in plain sight. > I wonder how it stacks up to the fake network pushing anti-China propaganda. > Brought to you by the 5 eyes propaganda machine: Bullshit Broadcasting Corporation > I find using the term “concentration camp” for something that resembles a youth correctional facility somewhat dishonest.

approxim8ion 5y ago

Yes, only Americans seem to have any degree of agency or capability of having unbiased discussions online.

birksherty 5y ago
I don't see comments that heavily support us gov and try to change topics like the chinese one do. So your sarcasm is false and let's not change the topic here again.
parrellel 5y ago
God no, we've got our own bizarre horrorshows. But I don't think I've ever seen that political reflex as strongly in Americans nearly as much. It's like for some topics (Tibet, Human Rights, Tienanmen, etc) they're stuck at the height of the Freedom Fries / Dixie Chicks rage machine after 9/11.

windoze123 5y ago

Just post something about india and trolls from that country will similarly pop up. I dont understand what is it with failing countries and whitewashing their internet image using trolls. Just fix your bloody and stop spamming.

dang 5y ago

You broke the site guidelines badly here. Please don't do that on HN again. We have this rule for good, extremely well-supported-by-data reasons: "Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html You can read many years' worth of past explanations if you want to understand more: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=true&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturf https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20-recycling%20chin&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...