4 ms·

Exactly. The rivals of the current status quo are bad and cannot be trusted! We only have to trust the people who pillaged Iraq under false pretences.

pas 5y ago
You don't have to trust anyone fully. In fact it's imperative to try to apply critical thinking to information that you encounter. (Both to counteract one's own and the other party's biases.) That said, one group has a history of shady (and overt) shit (from internment of Japanese Americans during WWII to MK Ultra to all the horrible things that have been unearthed during the years via FOIA, whistleblowers, investigative journalism, the culture of respecting the protection of journalists' sources) and the other group is currently operating concentration camps, is actively hostile toward investigative journalists, actively subverts any independent power structure (see the brutal suppression of Hong Kong politics). Of course it's important to put things into perspective. Both Room 641A and the Great Firewall are bad things. Both countries (and the groups that run these regions) have a lot of things to improve on. But the simple both sides whataboutism does not help here at all.
- trasz 5y ago
  I find using the term “concentration camp” for something that resembles a youth correctional facility somewhat dishonest.
  - pas 5y ago
    In a paranoid totalitarian ethno-state I don't think there's any real correction for minorities, only oppression. And the facilities are used accordingly.
    - trasz 5y ago
      I’m not talking about Chinese youth correctional facilities - no idea if they exist, I’d guess they do - but about the western ones. You get there for a couple of months, against your will, and you’ll be taught things like language, how to interact with the rest of society, and how you can fight stuff religious fundamentalists are forcing you to do. State propaganda calling that a concentration camp looks rather silly.
- krageon 5y ago
  It helps plenty, because it highlights the fact that one party is slandering another. Even though they're both equally bad. You have a finite amount of worrying in you, so shifting your focus to something else helps them get away with more themselves. To my mind this means that when such news comes from a party that is just a pot calling a kettle black, that's quite close to evidence of a guilty conscience.
  - pas 5y ago
    Umm. Usually it's not slander/libel. It's easy to find shit to throw at each other. That's why it unhelpful, because it doesn't help giving people a model with real predictive power.

pas 5y ago

You don't have to trust anyone fully. In fact it's imperative to try to apply critical thinking to information that you encounter. (Both to counteract one's own and the other party's biases.) That said, one group has a history of shady (and overt) shit (from internment of Japanese Americans during WWII to MK Ultra to all the horrible things that have been unearthed during the years via FOIA, whistleblowers, investigative journalism, the culture of respecting the protection of journalists' sources) and the other group is currently operating concentration camps, is actively hostile toward investigative journalists, actively subverts any independent power structure (see the brutal suppression of Hong Kong politics). Of course it's important to put things into perspective. Both Room 641A and the Great Firewall are bad things. Both countries (and the groups that run these regions) have a lot of things to improve on. But the simple both sides whataboutism does not help here at all.

trasz 5y ago
I find using the term “concentration camp” for something that resembles a youth correctional facility somewhat dishonest.
- pas 5y ago
  In a paranoid totalitarian ethno-state I don't think there's any real correction for minorities, only oppression. And the facilities are used accordingly.
  - trasz 5y ago
    I’m not talking about Chinese youth correctional facilities - no idea if they exist, I’d guess they do - but about the western ones. You get there for a couple of months, against your will, and you’ll be taught things like language, how to interact with the rest of society, and how you can fight stuff religious fundamentalists are forcing you to do. State propaganda calling that a concentration camp looks rather silly.
krageon 5y ago
It helps plenty, because it highlights the fact that one party is slandering another. Even though they're both equally bad. You have a finite amount of worrying in you, so shifting your focus to something else helps them get away with more themselves. To my mind this means that when such news comes from a party that is just a pot calling a kettle black, that's quite close to evidence of a guilty conscience.
- pas 5y ago
  Umm. Usually it's not slander/libel. It's easy to find shit to throw at each other. That's why it unhelpful, because it doesn't help giving people a model with real predictive power.