5 ms·

More unvaccinated people -> more people getting covid -> more chances for mutation into variants It's really that simple. We want as few active infections as p

More unvaccinated people -> more people getting covid -> more chances for mutation into variants It's really that simple. We want as few active infections as possible globally so that existing vaccinations can work for the variants they were made in mind with. Otherwise we will be at the disadvantage in a perpetual arms race trying to quickly stamp out the global "fires" of new variants.

zarzavat 5y ago
If you actually want that, then you need some kind of megaproject to build vaccine factories to supply the entire world and to distribute them to the whole world's population. This virus doesn't respect borders.
- monocasa 5y ago
  Yes in fact, that's the core of what a lot of people have been wanting by trying to get an IP waiver from the WTO. You don't even need new factories, as there's tons of factories out there that are itching to make the various vaccines.
  - vimy 5y ago
    It was my understanding that the developing world doesn’t have the required infrastructure nor qualified workers to manufacture the complex covid vaccines. So the whole patent point is moot.
    - monocasa 5y ago
      Your understanding is incorrect, hence the ongoing process for the WTO waiver. Even the mRNA vaccines aren't that crazy, it's a culture of e. coli that's been genetically engineered to produce the vaccines; the manufacturing steps themselves are pretty run of the mill bio reactor stuff with slightly more stringent temperature controls on the tail end. The non mRNA vaccines are pretty much equivalent to any other standard vaccine.
  - hcurtiss 5y ago
    With an IP waiver, you make it less likely you'll have a vaccine for the next one, defeating the entire purpose.
    - monocasa 5y ago
      No you don't; the vaccines were funded almost entirely with public money anyway.
      - hcurtiss 5y ago
        Their manufacture was. The mRNA research was a huge private bet (after some companies had given up).
        monocasa 5y ago
        The largest source of Moderna's R&D funding was nearly $1B in grants from the US Government.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- shaklee3 5y ago
  This has already happened. There's a world organization distributing millions of vaccines, and soon billions.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
AuryGlenz 5y ago
In a world where the delta variant can infect fully vaccinated people fairly easily, aren’t the vaccinated the real problem? The unvaccinated aren’t putting any particular pressure on the virus when it comes to evolving around the vaccines, but the vaccinated are. Unless we could magically get the cases to zero this problem isn’t going away. Mask mandates will slow things, but eventually you’ll need enough people to actually get infected to drop the replication rate.
- geedy 5y ago
  Variants occur in both unvaccinated and the vaccinated. Given enough time, a virus will tend evolve to become more infectious period. Somebody else could confirm this, but it seems to me that the current known variants of concern are not responses to vaccination.
  - johncearls 5y ago
    Only the vaccinated will preferentially evolve variants that are resistant to the vaccine. The vaccines are leaky, as evidenced by the recent outbreak in the Northeast. A saner strategy with leaky vaccines is to vaccinate the small population that is vulnerable and let the rest of the population of develop a natural herd immunity. Otherwise you are creating a fitness advantage to resistant strains.
    - XorNot 5y ago
      This is not how it works, and "natural" herd immunity has never been a real concept in epidemiology - which it is clear you are speculating on without bothering to read about but should also be trivially obvious from the fact that until vaccines none of the vaccine preventable diseases ever went extinct on their own. Or how the flu hits every single year.
      - johncearls 5y ago
        > Herd immunity is a form of indirect protection from infectious disease that can occur with some diseases when a sufficient percentage of a population has become immune to an infection, whether through vaccination or previous infections, thereby reducing the likelihood of infection for individuals who lack immunity. Right from wikipedia.

zarzavat 5y ago

If you actually want that, then you need some kind of megaproject to build vaccine factories to supply the entire world and to distribute them to the whole world's population. This virus doesn't respect borders.

monocasa 5y ago
Yes in fact, that's the core of what a lot of people have been wanting by trying to get an IP waiver from the WTO. You don't even need new factories, as there's tons of factories out there that are itching to make the various vaccines.
- vimy 5y ago
  It was my understanding that the developing world doesn’t have the required infrastructure nor qualified workers to manufacture the complex covid vaccines. So the whole patent point is moot.
  - monocasa 5y ago
    Your understanding is incorrect, hence the ongoing process for the WTO waiver. Even the mRNA vaccines aren't that crazy, it's a culture of e. coli that's been genetically engineered to produce the vaccines; the manufacturing steps themselves are pretty run of the mill bio reactor stuff with slightly more stringent temperature controls on the tail end. The non mRNA vaccines are pretty much equivalent to any other standard vaccine.
- hcurtiss 5y ago
  With an IP waiver, you make it less likely you'll have a vaccine for the next one, defeating the entire purpose.
  - monocasa 5y ago
    No you don't; the vaccines were funded almost entirely with public money anyway.
    - hcurtiss 5y ago
      Their manufacture was. The mRNA research was a huge private bet (after some companies had given up).
      - monocasa 5y ago
        The largest source of Moderna's R&D funding was nearly $1B in grants from the US Government.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
shaklee3 5y ago
This has already happened. There's a world organization distributing millions of vaccines, and soon billions.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

AuryGlenz 5y ago

In a world where the delta variant can infect fully vaccinated people fairly easily, aren’t the vaccinated the real problem? The unvaccinated aren’t putting any particular pressure on the virus when it comes to evolving around the vaccines, but the vaccinated are. Unless we could magically get the cases to zero this problem isn’t going away. Mask mandates will slow things, but eventually you’ll need enough people to actually get infected to drop the replication rate.

geedy 5y ago
Variants occur in both unvaccinated and the vaccinated. Given enough time, a virus will tend evolve to become more infectious period. Somebody else could confirm this, but it seems to me that the current known variants of concern are not responses to vaccination.
- johncearls 5y ago
  Only the vaccinated will preferentially evolve variants that are resistant to the vaccine. The vaccines are leaky, as evidenced by the recent outbreak in the Northeast. A saner strategy with leaky vaccines is to vaccinate the small population that is vulnerable and let the rest of the population of develop a natural herd immunity. Otherwise you are creating a fitness advantage to resistant strains.
  - XorNot 5y ago
    This is not how it works, and "natural" herd immunity has never been a real concept in epidemiology - which it is clear you are speculating on without bothering to read about but should also be trivially obvious from the fact that until vaccines none of the vaccine preventable diseases ever went extinct on their own. Or how the flu hits every single year.
    - johncearls 5y ago
      > Herd immunity is a form of indirect protection from infectious disease that can occur with some diseases when a sufficient percentage of a population has become immune to an infection, whether through vaccination or previous infections, thereby reducing the likelihood of infection for individuals who lack immunity. Right from wikipedia.