4 ms·

The base issue is usually mental illness worsened by substance abuse, without a strong social net and with readily available street drugs these people are prett

by belval 5y ago

The base issue is usually mental illness worsened by substance abuse, without a strong social net and with readily available street drugs these people are pretty much unfit for any kind of work.

goshx 5y ago
This has been what I've seen personally volunteering at a homeless outreach. Mental illness seems to be the major factor.
- api 5y ago
  AFAIK the homeless problem exploded when the US shut down its institutional mental health system in the 1980s. The shutdown wasn't just to cut costs. Many institutions had terrible records that included abusive treatment of patients. But we pulled the plug on that system with no replacement, so major cities became open air psychiatric wards.
  - AngryData 5y ago
    Yeah the system was terrible at the time, what they did however is sort of like seeing a bad performing school and closing it down permanently and then just leaving people completely uneducated. And then people complaining about how many illiterate people we got running around.
jhgb 5y ago
"Without readily available street drugs"? I suspect that wasn't about medication?
- edoceo 5y ago
  Without net. And easy access to drugs.
dragontamer 5y ago
There's a difference between chronic homelessness (which is probably caused by mental illness or drug abuse), and "typical" homelessness. "Typical" people are homeless for only a few days before someone in their social circle rescues them (and its not a happy story either: it could be that they tried living on the streets but ultimately decided that living with their alcoholic and abusive husband is superior to living on the streets). A lot of effort should probably be made at helping these individuals and providing support here. We shouldn't give up on Chronic homelessness either. Not everyone is mentally sick or a druggie. But a substantial number of them are clearly sick. And even if they are mentally sick, a pathway should be figured out to try to find a way to make them productive members of society.
- pengaru 5y ago
  > a pathway should be figured out to try to find a way to make them productive members of society. I think this attitude is a major component of the fundamental problem. Why not just accept that some proportion of society is unproductive for whatever reason, and spend tax dollars to keep them minimally housed, bathed, and clothed. Period. It's not extravagant, it's not spacious, it's just a cramped SRO any citizen can get a room in. So much of "productive" employed society is just inefficient borderline pointless busy work anyways, and automation will be increasingly decimating these jobs, it's not something we can continue ignoring and treating as a "homeless problem". Admit it, most of modern society already isn't productive, get over it. I can't honestly say all my colleagues in the tech industry were net productive. There was a whole lot of pissing money down the drain on insignificant contributions, aka warm chairs, aka plants. If tech companies can afford to pay tech salaries for nothing in return, they can pay more taxes to keep the streets, parks, sidewalks, and beaches clean and those down on their luck bathed and groomed enough to interview for a fake job.
  - parineum 5y ago
    I think your view of "productive" is too narrow. It doesn't just have to mean "produced tax revenue".
foobarian 5y ago
The mental illness factor is a part of it, but what's different about the US is that there seems to be less will to "put away" the homeless. You don't see them in more authoritarian societies where the powers that be are less cavalier about grabbing them off the street and depositing who knows where (even if it does end up being some nice universal-healthcare provided institution).

by belval 5y ago

The base issue is usually mental illness worsened by substance abuse, without a strong social net and with readily available street drugs these people are pretty much unfit for any kind of work.

goshx 5y ago

This has been what I've seen personally volunteering at a homeless outreach. Mental illness seems to be the major factor.

api 5y ago
AFAIK the homeless problem exploded when the US shut down its institutional mental health system in the 1980s. The shutdown wasn't just to cut costs. Many institutions had terrible records that included abusive treatment of patients. But we pulled the plug on that system with no replacement, so major cities became open air psychiatric wards.
- AngryData 5y ago
  Yeah the system was terrible at the time, what they did however is sort of like seeing a bad performing school and closing it down permanently and then just leaving people completely uneducated. And then people complaining about how many illiterate people we got running around.

jhgb 5y ago

"Without readily available street drugs"? I suspect that wasn't about medication?

edoceo 5y ago
Without net. And easy access to drugs.

dragontamer 5y ago

There's a difference between chronic homelessness (which is probably caused by mental illness or drug abuse), and "typical" homelessness. "Typical" people are homeless for only a few days before someone in their social circle rescues them (and its not a happy story either: it could be that they tried living on the streets but ultimately decided that living with their alcoholic and abusive husband is superior to living on the streets). A lot of effort should probably be made at helping these individuals and providing support here. We shouldn't give up on Chronic homelessness either. Not everyone is mentally sick or a druggie. But a substantial number of them are clearly sick. And even if they are mentally sick, a pathway should be figured out to try to find a way to make them productive members of society.

pengaru 5y ago
> a pathway should be figured out to try to find a way to make them productive members of society. I think this attitude is a major component of the fundamental problem. Why not just accept that some proportion of society is unproductive for whatever reason, and spend tax dollars to keep them minimally housed, bathed, and clothed. Period. It's not extravagant, it's not spacious, it's just a cramped SRO any citizen can get a room in. So much of "productive" employed society is just inefficient borderline pointless busy work anyways, and automation will be increasingly decimating these jobs, it's not something we can continue ignoring and treating as a "homeless problem". Admit it, most of modern society already isn't productive, get over it. I can't honestly say all my colleagues in the tech industry were net productive. There was a whole lot of pissing money down the drain on insignificant contributions, aka warm chairs, aka plants. If tech companies can afford to pay tech salaries for nothing in return, they can pay more taxes to keep the streets, parks, sidewalks, and beaches clean and those down on their luck bathed and groomed enough to interview for a fake job.
- parineum 5y ago
  I think your view of "productive" is too narrow. It doesn't just have to mean "produced tax revenue".

foobarian 5y ago

The mental illness factor is a part of it, but what's different about the US is that there seems to be less will to "put away" the homeless. You don't see them in more authoritarian societies where the powers that be are less cavalier about grabbing them off the street and depositing who knows where (even if it does end up being some nice universal-healthcare provided institution).