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> By going out unvaccinated, I'm not putting anyone in danger Yes, you are. * while a vaccinated person can spread the virus as well, current understanding is

by TomVDB 5y ago

> By going out unvaccinated, I'm not putting anyone in danger Yes, you are. * while a vaccinated person can spread the virus as well, current understanding is that it does so less than for an unvaccinated person. * vaccinated people can get sick, even if there's a much lower chance * vaccinated people can still have children who are not vaccinated None of this is absolute. It's a matter of percentages, chances and what not. Your claim is an absolute, and it's absolutely wrong.

h_anna_h 5y ago
> * vaccinated people can still have children who are not vaccinated They should just vaccinate them then. I don't see why it is fine for the children to be unvaccinated but not for tomp.
- bart_spoon 5y ago
  It’s not that it’s “fine” for children to not be vaccinated, it’s that it is literally not possible to vaccinate anyone under 12 in the US right now legally.
  - h_anna_h 5y ago
    My suggestion is that this should be changed.
    - TomVDB 5y ago
      Clinical trials for that are ongoing. Earliest possible approval is October.
      - h_anna_h 5y ago
        They are putting disproportionately and unjustifiably lot of effort in trying to verify the safety of the vaccine for children compared to teens or older. It should have been available for them along with the rest of the population. The argument that "there haven't been enough clinical trials in order to allow children to take the vaccine" is similar to the whole "there hasn't been FDA approval!!". Also, just came to my attention that you ignored the "You oppose discrimination. I'm immune but not vaccinated. Where's my immunity certificate?" part of tomp's argument. Why do you want him to take the vaccine despite the fact that he is not endangering others?
        TomVDB 5y ago
        Google “should I get the vaccine if I already had COVID?”
        h_anna_h 5y ago
        Not sure what your point is. The general scientific consensus so far seems to be that there is no evidence to justify the need for people who already had COVID to get vaccinated. If anything it is worse, as only around 15% of the world population is vaccinated. By getting vaccinated while you already have COVID antibodies you take the vaccine from someone who does not.
        TomVDB 5y ago
        The CDC recommends getting vaccinated if you’ve had COVID unless there are medical reasons not. As for there not being enough vaccines around the world: I’m taking the US centric view, sorry, because the whole context of this topic is about NYC etc. We’re drowning in vaccines here, they are expiring while sitting in a fridge, and the logistics are currently just not there to rapidly move cold-store vaccines to another country.
- TomVDB 5y ago
  I see that you’re suffering from the common affliction of having a strong opinion about something you have no clue about: vaccines have not been approved for those younger than 12. Now that your knowledge level has increased, will you please stop endangering others and take the vaccine? Thanks!
  - h_anna_h 5y ago
    > vaccines have not been approved for those younger than 12 And I suggest that this should be changed. Chill and try to be less toxic please. You don't know if I have taken or not the vaccine so please don't assume.
    - TomVDB 5y ago
      Apologies. I mistakenly thought that I was replying to the one I originally replied to, who stated they weren’t vaccinated. I have no empathy and patience left anymore for those people.
  - tomp 5y ago
    I love how people repeat propaganda without thinking, claiming both “vaccines are 100% safe” and “we need to wait to make sure vaccines are safe for children” without even noticing the logical contradiction...
    - TomVDB 5y ago
      I love how people like you think that building a strawman is effective at making an argument: nobody claims vaccines are 100% safe. They are not. But when the risk of adverse effects of a vaccine is lower than 0.001% and the risk of adverse effects of not having a vaccine is many orders of magnitude higher, the choice is obvious. It makes total sense to stagger the testing and deployment based on age groups, especially for COVID-19: due to the insane mortality rate a high age, the benefits of vaccine far outweighed the risk of not doing it. The fact that these elderly automatically functioned as a huge test group for further deployment for others was a very convenient additional benefit. Likewise, it also makes total sense to be more cautious for kids. The younger they are, the higher the consequences. Try again.

by TomVDB 5y ago

h_anna_h 5y ago

> * vaccinated people can still have children who are not vaccinated They should just vaccinate them then. I don't see why it is fine for the children to be unvaccinated but not for tomp.

bart_spoon 5y ago
It’s not that it’s “fine” for children to not be vaccinated, it’s that it is literally not possible to vaccinate anyone under 12 in the US right now legally.
- h_anna_h 5y ago
  My suggestion is that this should be changed.
  - TomVDB 5y ago
    Clinical trials for that are ongoing. Earliest possible approval is October.
    - h_anna_h 5y ago
      They are putting disproportionately and unjustifiably lot of effort in trying to verify the safety of the vaccine for children compared to teens or older. It should have been available for them along with the rest of the population. The argument that "there haven't been enough clinical trials in order to allow children to take the vaccine" is similar to the whole "there hasn't been FDA approval!!". Also, just came to my attention that you ignored the "You oppose discrimination. I'm immune but not vaccinated. Where's my immunity certificate?" part of tomp's argument. Why do you want him to take the vaccine despite the fact that he is not endangering others?
      - TomVDB 5y ago
        Google “should I get the vaccine if I already had COVID?”
        h_anna_h 5y ago
        Not sure what your point is. The general scientific consensus so far seems to be that there is no evidence to justify the need for people who already had COVID to get vaccinated. If anything it is worse, as only around 15% of the world population is vaccinated. By getting vaccinated while you already have COVID antibodies you take the vaccine from someone who does not.
        TomVDB 5y ago
        The CDC recommends getting vaccinated if you’ve had COVID unless there are medical reasons not. As for there not being enough vaccines around the world: I’m taking the US centric view, sorry, because the whole context of this topic is about NYC etc. We’re drowning in vaccines here, they are expiring while sitting in a fridge, and the logistics are currently just not there to rapidly move cold-store vaccines to another country.
TomVDB 5y ago
I see that you’re suffering from the common affliction of having a strong opinion about something you have no clue about: vaccines have not been approved for those younger than 12. Now that your knowledge level has increased, will you please stop endangering others and take the vaccine? Thanks!
- h_anna_h 5y ago
  > vaccines have not been approved for those younger than 12 And I suggest that this should be changed. Chill and try to be less toxic please. You don't know if I have taken or not the vaccine so please don't assume.
  - TomVDB 5y ago
    Apologies. I mistakenly thought that I was replying to the one I originally replied to, who stated they weren’t vaccinated. I have no empathy and patience left anymore for those people.
- tomp 5y ago
  I love how people repeat propaganda without thinking, claiming both “vaccines are 100% safe” and “we need to wait to make sure vaccines are safe for children” without even noticing the logical contradiction...
  - TomVDB 5y ago
    I love how people like you think that building a strawman is effective at making an argument: nobody claims vaccines are 100% safe. They are not. But when the risk of adverse effects of a vaccine is lower than 0.001% and the risk of adverse effects of not having a vaccine is many orders of magnitude higher, the choice is obvious. It makes total sense to stagger the testing and deployment based on age groups, especially for COVID-19: due to the insane mortality rate a high age, the benefits of vaccine far outweighed the risk of not doing it. The fact that these elderly automatically functioned as a huge test group for further deployment for others was a very convenient additional benefit. Likewise, it also makes total sense to be more cautious for kids. The younger they are, the higher the consequences. Try again.