8 ms·

The link leads to a reddit post, which leads to another reddit post, which leads to this article in Swiss: https://www.nzz.ch/schweiz/hsg-und-china-kritik-auf-t

The link leads to a reddit post, which leads to another reddit post, which leads to this article in Swiss: https://www.nzz.ch/schweiz/hsg-und-china-kritik-auf-twitter-kostet-doktoranden-abschluss-ld.1637789 https://www.nzz.ch/schweiz/hsg-und-china-kritik-auf-twitter-... I can't read Swiss... but the comments on Reddit seem to show that this isn't as cut and dry as the title makes it sound. Quoting /u/hamsterman20: > "First of all, he was going to a chinese university with a chinese scholarship. > He left the swiss university because of some weird technicalities while attending the Chinese university. > He posted political messages against china and 1 picture depicting a chinese with yellow skin and slit eyes. > Im not surprised he was kicked out of the chinese university and that the supervisor wanted to distance themselves. Though I wish they would stand up against China, its hard when your career depends on it. > His swiss university refused to take them back. Don't know why. Technicalities I guess." I'm sure there's still more to the story, and that it obviously isn't entirely the student's fault, but it isn't like a Swiss Student randomly tweeted about the CCP and got kicked out.

MisterSandman 5y ago
Link to comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/oxmgg2/phd_student_in_switzerland_expelled_from_his/h7niqst/ https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/oxmgg2/phd_student_...
denysvitali 5y ago
> which leads to this article in Swiss What? There is no "Swiss" language, the article is in German
noipv4 5y ago
Lol, it's German. There is no Swiss language. We speak German, French, Italian and Romansch here.
- eru 5y ago
  (Spoken) Swiss German might as well be its own language. At least since we are already accepting Dutch being different from (Low) German. Of course in this case, the write-up is in standard high German. Google Translate handles that just fine.
  - denysvitali 5y ago
    The problem there is that there is no standardization across all the Swiss German variations, for foreigners, this is an interesting comparison of 5 of these dialects: https://youtu.be/nEAcepckl5U https://youtu.be/nEAcepckl5U
    - eru 5y ago
      Yes. I suppose the lack of standardization is a consequence of Swiss German not having a long history of cross-regional use in national media (be that print or radio or TV).
- Shacklz 5y ago
  > We speak German The Germans might see that a bit different than us ;) Jokes aside, the article was of course in German.
- watwut 5y ago
  People who speak German regularly dont understand Swiss German as it is different.
  - yannvon 5y ago
    Sure, but this was not Swiss German.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - sschueller 5y ago
    Same goes for Swiss from different regions. You know it's bad when they add German subtitles to a Swiss person talking Swiss German so other Swiss Germans understand it.
  - anthk 5y ago
    It may happen the same way with random Spanish speakers on the Chilean, Argentinian or the Murcian dialect if they are not exposed to them.
  - rorykoehler 5y ago
    I never had a problem when I went to Switzerland. My German isn’t even fluent
- hmsshagatsea 5y ago
  Suisse Dutsch might as well be its own language.
- disabled 5y ago
  There are several localized Swiss dialects and there are some Swiss German formal written publications in these local Swiss dialects that other Alemannic German readers have trouble understanding.
- MisterSandman 5y ago
  Sorry! Genuine mistake, should've probably looked it up before posting :/
ChemSpider 5y ago
> it isn't like a Swiss Student randomly tweeted about the CCP and got kicked out. Based on the original article, it is pretty much exactly like that. The newspaper talked to both sides and clearly believes the student over the professor. It seems everything else are excuses by the Prof and the university (which has plenty of cooperations with China). Now, if the student was technically enrolled at the University or the prof was "only" his PhD advisor, does not change anything about the story. Edit: English version of the article here: https://www.nzz.ch/english/swiss-phd-students-dismissal-spotlights-chinas-influence-ld.1638771 https://www.nzz.ch/english/swiss-phd-students-dismissal-spot...
- disgruntledphd2 5y ago
  That article should definitely be the OP here, as it's much, much more informative than the Reddit posts.
  - dmix 5y ago
    The 2nd comment in the original Reddit post linked here on HN has a good translation: https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/oxmgg2/phd_student_in_switzerland_expelled_from_his/h7nefyq/ https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/oxmgg2/phd_student_...
    - ChemSpider 5y ago
      No need for a translation. There is an original English version of the article: https://www.nzz.ch/english/swiss-phd-students-dismissal-spotlights-chinas-influence-ld.1638771 https://www.nzz.ch/english/swiss-phd-students-dismissal-spot...
- amadsen 5y ago
  The NZZ, for what it is worth, is probably the most highly regarded newspaper in Switzerland when it comes to journalistic integrity. It has a clear political bias to the right, but very high credibility.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
tomp 5y ago
The reddit comment might be Chinese propaganda. Reading the beginning of the English version of the article [1], it looks like the student was expelled from University of St. Gallen, which definitely sounds like a Swiss university. [1] https://www.nzz.ch/english/swiss-phd-students-dismissal-spotlights-chinas-influence-ld.1638771 https://www.nzz.ch/english/swiss-phd-students-dismissal-spot...
- jccalhoun 5y ago
  However, from later on in the article, "Yet throughout the spring of 2020, the university stuck to its position that when the trouble over his tweets broke out, he had long since ceased to be a St. Gallen doctoral student." So it looks like the guy wasn't technically a student at the university at the time. I don't know but I would guess this was some kind of technical move that is commonly done but because he kicked up some trouble, the university used this technicality as an excuse to get rid of him.
  - tomp 5y ago
    Sounds like a very weak excuse. "We let our not-students keep their email accounts until we not-kick-them-out." The point is that a Swiss university retaliated against a Swiss student in Switzerland due to Chinese/CCP pressure because he voiced his political opinion.
    - shakow 5y ago
      I don't know how it works there, but IME, I can still use my email from a university I'm not working at for over 2 years.
      - dkarl 5y ago
        My sister uses an email account from grad school as her primary personal email. She got her PhD seventeen years ago and hasn't had any official connection with the university since then.
    - 5y ago
chrissnell 5y ago
Considering that the CCP paid The NY Times, LA Times, and other major papers to publish propaganda pieces and not publish COVID lab leak pieces during 2020, I don't believe much of what I read when it comes to articles that could be deemed favorable to China.
- agucova 5y ago
  Do you have evidence for this from a reputable source?
  - octonion 5y ago
    Of course he doesn't, as it's complete nonsense.
    - goldenkey 5y ago
      Chinese mouthpiece paid US newspapers $19 mn in ads, printing: https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/chinese-mouthpiece-paid-us-newspapers-19-mn-in-ads-printing-report-120060900514_1.html https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/chin... Please refrain from reactionary insults like calling chrissnell's comment "nonsense." It's in poor taste even if you're supported by others who don't bother to perform even cursory research.
      - mastax 5y ago
        Okay, China Daily paid for ads. Any evidence that "CCP paid The NY Times, LA Times, and other major papers to [...] not publish COVID lab leak pieces during 2020"?
        goldenkey 5y ago
        China Daily (simplified Chinese: 中国日报; traditional Chinese: 中國日報; pinyin: Zhōngguó Rìbào) is an English-language daily newspaper owned by the Publicity Department of the Chinese Communist Party. I'm getting confused. Is China Daily separate from the CCP?
Quanttek 5y ago
I recommend to continue reading the English article: > Gerber's goal was to be able to continue studying at St. Gallen. But the university argued that the professor hadn’t kicked him out; rather, he had been deregistered at his own request quite some time ago. In fact, as of the fall 2019 semester, Gerber had been officially enrolled only at the university in China, not at St. Gallen. He had been advised to take this tack by the St. Gallen doctoral program manager. In an email, the manager had said this would ensure that the maximum time allowed for pursuit of the degree would not expire while Gerber was in China. «Deregistration allows you to keep all your options on the table,» the email had said. The reregistration process would be like applying all over again – but with the support of his professor, this would be no problem, the program manager said. It then continues to talk about the voluntary nature of the continued support. The email that was received was also sent by a Chinese student in Canada
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
Blikkentrekker 5y ago
I mostly came here to post that I was surprised that this is legal in Switzerland. A Ph.D. student is an employee, and even normal university students can in most countries not be so easily dismissed without some show of academic misconduct. Organizations being legally allowed to dismiss without some compelling reason or court approval is a U.S.A. idiosyncrasy.

MisterSandman 5y ago

Link to comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/oxmgg2/phd_student_in_switzerland_expelled_from_his/h7niqst/ https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/oxmgg2/phd_student_...

denysvitali 5y ago

> which leads to this article in Swiss What? There is no "Swiss" language, the article is in German

noipv4 5y ago

Lol, it's German. There is no Swiss language. We speak German, French, Italian and Romansch here.

eru 5y ago
(Spoken) Swiss German might as well be its own language. At least since we are already accepting Dutch being different from (Low) German. Of course in this case, the write-up is in standard high German. Google Translate handles that just fine.
- denysvitali 5y ago
  The problem there is that there is no standardization across all the Swiss German variations, for foreigners, this is an interesting comparison of 5 of these dialects: https://youtu.be/nEAcepckl5U https://youtu.be/nEAcepckl5U
  - eru 5y ago
    Yes. I suppose the lack of standardization is a consequence of Swiss German not having a long history of cross-regional use in national media (be that print or radio or TV).
Shacklz 5y ago
> We speak German The Germans might see that a bit different than us ;) Jokes aside, the article was of course in German.
watwut 5y ago
People who speak German regularly dont understand Swiss German as it is different.
- yannvon 5y ago
  Sure, but this was not Swiss German.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- sschueller 5y ago
  Same goes for Swiss from different regions. You know it's bad when they add German subtitles to a Swiss person talking Swiss German so other Swiss Germans understand it.
- anthk 5y ago
  It may happen the same way with random Spanish speakers on the Chilean, Argentinian or the Murcian dialect if they are not exposed to them.
- rorykoehler 5y ago
  I never had a problem when I went to Switzerland. My German isn’t even fluent
hmsshagatsea 5y ago
Suisse Dutsch might as well be its own language.
disabled 5y ago
There are several localized Swiss dialects and there are some Swiss German formal written publications in these local Swiss dialects that other Alemannic German readers have trouble understanding.
MisterSandman 5y ago
Sorry! Genuine mistake, should've probably looked it up before posting :/

ChemSpider 5y ago

> it isn't like a Swiss Student randomly tweeted about the CCP and got kicked out. Based on the original article, it is pretty much exactly like that. The newspaper talked to both sides and clearly believes the student over the professor. It seems everything else are excuses by the Prof and the university (which has plenty of cooperations with China). Now, if the student was technically enrolled at the University or the prof was "only" his PhD advisor, does not change anything about the story. Edit: English version of the article here: https://www.nzz.ch/english/swiss-phd-students-dismissal-spotlights-chinas-influence-ld.1638771 https://www.nzz.ch/english/swiss-phd-students-dismissal-spot...

disgruntledphd2 5y ago
That article should definitely be the OP here, as it's much, much more informative than the Reddit posts.
- dmix 5y ago
  The 2nd comment in the original Reddit post linked here on HN has a good translation: https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/oxmgg2/phd_student_in_switzerland_expelled_from_his/h7nefyq/ https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/oxmgg2/phd_student_...
  - ChemSpider 5y ago
    No need for a translation. There is an original English version of the article: https://www.nzz.ch/english/swiss-phd-students-dismissal-spotlights-chinas-influence-ld.1638771 https://www.nzz.ch/english/swiss-phd-students-dismissal-spot...
amadsen 5y ago
The NZZ, for what it is worth, is probably the most highly regarded newspaper in Switzerland when it comes to journalistic integrity. It has a clear political bias to the right, but very high credibility.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

tomp 5y ago

The reddit comment might be Chinese propaganda. Reading the beginning of the English version of the article [1], it looks like the student was expelled from University of St. Gallen, which definitely sounds like a Swiss university. [1] https://www.nzz.ch/english/swiss-phd-students-dismissal-spotlights-chinas-influence-ld.1638771 https://www.nzz.ch/english/swiss-phd-students-dismissal-spot...

jccalhoun 5y ago
However, from later on in the article, "Yet throughout the spring of 2020, the university stuck to its position that when the trouble over his tweets broke out, he had long since ceased to be a St. Gallen doctoral student." So it looks like the guy wasn't technically a student at the university at the time. I don't know but I would guess this was some kind of technical move that is commonly done but because he kicked up some trouble, the university used this technicality as an excuse to get rid of him.
- tomp 5y ago
  Sounds like a very weak excuse. "We let our not-students keep their email accounts until we not-kick-them-out." The point is that a Swiss university retaliated against a Swiss student in Switzerland due to Chinese/CCP pressure because he voiced his political opinion.
  - shakow 5y ago
    I don't know how it works there, but IME, I can still use my email from a university I'm not working at for over 2 years.
    - dkarl 5y ago
      My sister uses an email account from grad school as her primary personal email. She got her PhD seventeen years ago and hasn't had any official connection with the university since then.
  - 5y ago

chrissnell 5y ago

Considering that the CCP paid The NY Times, LA Times, and other major papers to publish propaganda pieces and not publish COVID lab leak pieces during 2020, I don't believe much of what I read when it comes to articles that could be deemed favorable to China.

agucova 5y ago
Do you have evidence for this from a reputable source?
- octonion 5y ago
  Of course he doesn't, as it's complete nonsense.
  - goldenkey 5y ago
    Chinese mouthpiece paid US newspapers $19 mn in ads, printing: https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/chinese-mouthpiece-paid-us-newspapers-19-mn-in-ads-printing-report-120060900514_1.html https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/chin... Please refrain from reactionary insults like calling chrissnell's comment "nonsense." It's in poor taste even if you're supported by others who don't bother to perform even cursory research.
    - mastax 5y ago
      Okay, China Daily paid for ads. Any evidence that "CCP paid The NY Times, LA Times, and other major papers to [...] not publish COVID lab leak pieces during 2020"?
      - goldenkey 5y ago
        China Daily (simplified Chinese: 中国日报; traditional Chinese: 中國日報; pinyin: Zhōngguó Rìbào) is an English-language daily newspaper owned by the Publicity Department of the Chinese Communist Party. I'm getting confused. Is China Daily separate from the CCP?

Quanttek 5y ago

I recommend to continue reading the English article: > Gerber's goal was to be able to continue studying at St. Gallen. But the university argued that the professor hadn’t kicked him out; rather, he had been deregistered at his own request quite some time ago. In fact, as of the fall 2019 semester, Gerber had been officially enrolled only at the university in China, not at St. Gallen. He had been advised to take this tack by the St. Gallen doctoral program manager. In an email, the manager had said this would ensure that the maximum time allowed for pursuit of the degree would not expire while Gerber was in China. «Deregistration allows you to keep all your options on the table,» the email had said. The reregistration process would be like applying all over again – but with the support of his professor, this would be no problem, the program manager said. It then continues to talk about the voluntary nature of the continued support. The email that was received was also sent by a Chinese student in Canada

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

Blikkentrekker 5y ago

I mostly came here to post that I was surprised that this is legal in Switzerland. A Ph.D. student is an employee, and even normal university students can in most countries not be so easily dismissed without some show of academic misconduct. Organizations being legally allowed to dismiss without some compelling reason or court approval is a U.S.A. idiosyncrasy.