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Having your email address boils down to password recovery. For instance, I only ever send 3 types of emails: 1 - Activation email with activation code to ensur

Having your email address boils down to password recovery. For instance, I only ever send 3 types of emails: 1 - Activation email with activation code to ensure the person actually owns the email address (non-OAUTH sign-up) 2 - Password recovery for when they have forgotten their password. Yes, a user doesn't need this with OAUTH but sometimes they will have forgotten that they used OAUTH to start with and need to sign in with email & pss 3 - When push is turned off and someone has messaged you I don't think this is beyond reasonable but I'm willing to take criticism

sbuk 5y ago
There are other ways to do password recovery. Email is categorically not the only solution to this problem.
- collaborative 5y ago
  You mean "secret questions" or phone number?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
qwytw 5y ago
The messages sent to the "anonymous" Apple id mail are just forwarded to the user's inbox, aren't they? How is that any different from any other email address.
- jackson1442 5y ago
  There is an email origin restriction- that's how they keep devs from selling them, emails can only come from the right domain. That still shouldn't be a problem though.
- collaborative 5y ago
  It isn't. My problem with AppleID is nothing more than that they forced AppleID on me. I would have voluntarily added it otherwise. But now because of this, I really really dislike it to the point that I will refuse to implement it in other platforms where it is not mandatory And I think Apple's behavior should change so I am making this public
  - haswell 5y ago
    Asking an honest question: if Apple didn’t force this, would you really add this voluntarily? Because this response tells me you’re willing to compromise your user’s experience because of your personal issues with Apple. As a user, this does not give me confidence in your decision making. It’s somewhat understandable to be annoyed, even angry at Apple. But the moment you decide to pass that on to your users is the moment you’ve forgotten the most important humans in this story. Of course, it’s your right to do what you want, and if that means taking a stance against Apple ranks higher than your user base, I suppose that’s your prerogative. But that definitely would make me hesitate to use the app.
    - collaborative 5y ago
      Honest answer: yes I don't even hold a grudge against Apple. This is just me trying to make the world a better place. It's in everyone's interest that Apple doesn't gain authority to force us to do things (don't forget, devs also are Apple customers)
      - askafriend 5y ago
        As a user, I don’t trust your “honest answer”. On the other hand, I absolutely trust Apple - my relationship with them spans over a decade and countless products/experiences. I’m happy that they’re forcing devs to offer Apple Sign On as an option when other social logins are also offered. As a user, I trust Apple far more than any 3rd party dev. I pay a premium to Apple because of their platform and the types of things they enforce. I want you to understand that as a user, this is exactly what I want Apple to do and I pay extra for it.
      - haswell 5y ago
        But what you're telling me is that your opinion about Apple here supersedes my own wishes/wants/goals as an end-user. This reads like "I know what's best, despite what Apple users say they want, and I'm going to make the world a better place by ignoring my users and telling them what they want is actually bad for them", despite the fact that this is actually a beneficial feature to users, even if it could be construed as a benefit to Apple as well (arguments can certainly be made). > It's in everyone's interest that Apple doesn't gain authority to force us to do things The rulebook to participate in this ecosystem is a mile thick. Why is this the issue that you choose to make a fuss over? There are a a myriad of other rules that are even more heavy handed, that actually are to the detriment of end users to protect Apple's walled-garden. Picking a feature that arguably makes user's lives better seems tone deaf at best, and actively harmful to a broader message about openness at worst.
raxxorrax 5y ago
It should also be mentioned that email doesn't generally provide any information. hobgoblin33@ussr.ru doesn't carry much info.
- hombre_fatal 5y ago
  You're underestimating email. People reuse their email address, so it's not as benign as you think. Just googling someone's email is a start. But worse actors can find your email on a combolist or figure out what other services you use. Just knowing someone's email is the first step to social engineering a customer service backdoor, for example. AppleID specifically helps users avoid all this with trivial per-app email address generation, and that's something our tools should have given us a decade ago.
p2t2p 5y ago
> Having your email address boils down to password recovery. For instance, I only ever send 3 types of emails I don't care. I don't trust you. I don't trust any of modern devs, I see every other new shiny crap on the internet only as an attempt to extort me of data and/or money (subscription) now. Before Apple introduced that feature I was using email aliases in my Fastmail. Need to register in new service - go to Fastmail, generate an alias for some weird domain they've got, setup filter for it to go to "dodgy" folder and then register. Now I don't need to do that anymore, Apple automated that for me. And thank's Apple it also forced guys like you to allow me to use that automation. At least on their platform. For same reason the only way I buy a subscription is through an in-app-purchase - because I can just to go App Store and cancel it and don't need to deal with people like you. I remember like an year ago I was waiting for a refund for a cancelled subscription and my emails were ignored and the only way to get the attention was to open a dispute in PayPal. Yet another supplier-hostile but consumer-friendly company. Thanks god they exist.
- handrous 5y ago
  I think some smaller-time devs don't appreciate that if they "win" against Apple and make them significantly loosen restrictions, users' wallets will tighten, especially for small developers and companies that no-one's heard of. Keeping the App Store low-friction, low-risk, and UX consistent, is a huge benefit for those kinds of devs (the ones selling software or subscriptions, anyway).

sbuk 5y ago

There are other ways to do password recovery. Email is categorically not the only solution to this problem.

collaborative 5y ago
You mean "secret questions" or phone number?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

qwytw 5y ago

The messages sent to the "anonymous" Apple id mail are just forwarded to the user's inbox, aren't they? How is that any different from any other email address.

jackson1442 5y ago
There is an email origin restriction- that's how they keep devs from selling them, emails can only come from the right domain. That still shouldn't be a problem though.
collaborative 5y ago
It isn't. My problem with AppleID is nothing more than that they forced AppleID on me. I would have voluntarily added it otherwise. But now because of this, I really really dislike it to the point that I will refuse to implement it in other platforms where it is not mandatory And I think Apple's behavior should change so I am making this public
- haswell 5y ago
  Asking an honest question: if Apple didn’t force this, would you really add this voluntarily? Because this response tells me you’re willing to compromise your user’s experience because of your personal issues with Apple. As a user, this does not give me confidence in your decision making. It’s somewhat understandable to be annoyed, even angry at Apple. But the moment you decide to pass that on to your users is the moment you’ve forgotten the most important humans in this story. Of course, it’s your right to do what you want, and if that means taking a stance against Apple ranks higher than your user base, I suppose that’s your prerogative. But that definitely would make me hesitate to use the app.
  - collaborative 5y ago
    Honest answer: yes I don't even hold a grudge against Apple. This is just me trying to make the world a better place. It's in everyone's interest that Apple doesn't gain authority to force us to do things (don't forget, devs also are Apple customers)
    - askafriend 5y ago
      As a user, I don’t trust your “honest answer”. On the other hand, I absolutely trust Apple - my relationship with them spans over a decade and countless products/experiences. I’m happy that they’re forcing devs to offer Apple Sign On as an option when other social logins are also offered. As a user, I trust Apple far more than any 3rd party dev. I pay a premium to Apple because of their platform and the types of things they enforce. I want you to understand that as a user, this is exactly what I want Apple to do and I pay extra for it.
    - haswell 5y ago
      But what you're telling me is that your opinion about Apple here supersedes my own wishes/wants/goals as an end-user. This reads like "I know what's best, despite what Apple users say they want, and I'm going to make the world a better place by ignoring my users and telling them what they want is actually bad for them", despite the fact that this is actually a beneficial feature to users, even if it could be construed as a benefit to Apple as well (arguments can certainly be made). > It's in everyone's interest that Apple doesn't gain authority to force us to do things The rulebook to participate in this ecosystem is a mile thick. Why is this the issue that you choose to make a fuss over? There are a a myriad of other rules that are even more heavy handed, that actually are to the detriment of end users to protect Apple's walled-garden. Picking a feature that arguably makes user's lives better seems tone deaf at best, and actively harmful to a broader message about openness at worst.

raxxorrax 5y ago

It should also be mentioned that email doesn't generally provide any information. hobgoblin33@ussr.ru doesn't carry much info.

hombre_fatal 5y ago
You're underestimating email. People reuse their email address, so it's not as benign as you think. Just googling someone's email is a start. But worse actors can find your email on a combolist or figure out what other services you use. Just knowing someone's email is the first step to social engineering a customer service backdoor, for example. AppleID specifically helps users avoid all this with trivial per-app email address generation, and that's something our tools should have given us a decade ago.

p2t2p 5y ago

> Having your email address boils down to password recovery. For instance, I only ever send 3 types of emails I don't care. I don't trust you. I don't trust any of modern devs, I see every other new shiny crap on the internet only as an attempt to extort me of data and/or money (subscription) now. Before Apple introduced that feature I was using email aliases in my Fastmail. Need to register in new service - go to Fastmail, generate an alias for some weird domain they've got, setup filter for it to go to "dodgy" folder and then register. Now I don't need to do that anymore, Apple automated that for me. And thank's Apple it also forced guys like you to allow me to use that automation. At least on their platform. For same reason the only way I buy a subscription is through an in-app-purchase - because I can just to go App Store and cancel it and don't need to deal with people like you. I remember like an year ago I was waiting for a refund for a cancelled subscription and my emails were ignored and the only way to get the attention was to open a dispute in PayPal. Yet another supplier-hostile but consumer-friendly company. Thanks god they exist.

handrous 5y ago
I think some smaller-time devs don't appreciate that if they "win" against Apple and make them significantly loosen restrictions, users' wallets will tighten, especially for small developers and companies that no-one's heard of. Keeping the App Store low-friction, low-risk, and UX consistent, is a huge benefit for those kinds of devs (the ones selling software or subscriptions, anyway).