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Petty and hysterical. The part where the developer puts the word 'privacy' in scare quotes is a bit of a red flag for me. Suggesting that "accept[ing] two "soc

Petty and hysterical. The part where the developer puts the word 'privacy' in scare quotes is a bit of a red flag for me. Suggesting that "accept[ing] two "social logins": Google and Facebook. All was well." does not fill me with confidence that the developer respects privacy concerns.

raxxorrax 5y ago
These login methods are the least privacy preserving methods to do a login. The identity provider instantly knows which services you use.
webmobdev 5y ago
Only the naive and the ignorant believe that Apple cares about users privacy. All their "privacy" features are just designed to collect more and more data about its users. Even unnecessary data. And they get away with it because of marketing that leads people like you to believe that they can be "trusted" with your data - the same data they use, and will use, to make more money. They have already restarted their advertising network again, like before. They claim they are no longer part of PRISM, a US government program that allowed big tech to sell user data to government agencies.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- RL_Quine 5y ago
  They implemented end to end encryption in iMessage to collect more data? There's a vast array of technical instances where apple has gone above and beyond to implement privacy preserving technology, even when they weren't talking about it. This is, like the OP, hysteria without any basis in fact.
  - ksec 5y ago
    >They implemented end to end encryption in iMessage to collect more data? iMessage backed up on iCloud where Apple has key to decrypt.
    - nyuszika7h 5y ago
      Well, kind of. Apparently Messages in iCloud is still E2E encrypted, but not if you have full-device iCloud Backup enabled. Though I've often been prompted for my previous passcode to restore data from an iCloud backup, so not sure if anything has changed on that front.
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      I'm pretty sure I was asked to provide an additional password to save my messages. Are you sure Apple has a key to decrypt?
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  At least Twitter used 2FA numbers for advertising. I believe others will do the same.
- GeekyBear 5y ago
  Apple Maps: >“We specifically don’t collect data, even from point A to point B,” notes Cue. “We collect data — when we do it — in an anonymous fashion, in subsections of the whole, so we couldn’t even say that there is a person that went from point A to point B. We’re collecting the segments of it. The segments that he is referring to are sliced out of any given person’s navigation session. Neither the beginning or the end of any trip is ever transmitted to Apple. Rotating identifiers, not personal information, are assigned to any data or requests sent to Apple and it augments the “ground truth” data provided by its own mapping vehicles with this “probe data” sent back from iPhones. https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/29/apple-is-rebuilding-maps-from-the-ground-up/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/29/apple-is-rebuilding-maps-f... Google Maps: >Google Maps won't let you save home address without allowing all Google tracking https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18070183 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18070183 and >An Associated Press investigation found that many Google services on Android devices and iPhones store your location data even if you’ve used a privacy setting that says it will prevent Google from doing so. https://apnews.com/article/north-america-science-technology-business-ap-top-news-828aefab64d4411bac257a07c1af0ecb https://apnews.com/article/north-america-science-technology-...
  - webmobdev 5y ago
    "The iPhone continues to store location data even when location services are disabled, contrary to Apple’s previous claims. The Wall Street Journal did independent testing on an iPhone and found that even after turning off location services, the device was still collecting information on nearby cell towers and Wi-Fi access points." 2011: iPhone's Location-Data Collection Can't Be Turned Off - https://www.wired.com/2011/04/iphone-location-opt-out/ https://www.wired.com/2011/04/iphone-location-opt-out/ "Your iPhone tracks your location for a variety of reasons. It tracks you to calibrate sensors and to improve services, but also to show you ads." 2019: How to stop your iPhone from tracking your location - https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/19/your-apple-iphone-tracks-where-you-go-heres-how-to-see-what-it-knows.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/19/your-apple-iphone-tracks-whe... 2019: It’s the middle of the night. Do you know who your iPhone is talking to? - https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/05/28/its-middle-night-do-you-know-who-your-iphone-is-talking/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/05/28/its-mid... "The best way to keep something secret is not to capture and store it in the first place. And that’s the crux of the privacy versus convenience debate now redefining our applications and software-based services ... Yes, maybe what happens on an iPhone stays on an iPhone, but some data should not be captured in the first place. Nothing more so than the significant invasiveness of Apple’s significant locations concept—a perfect illustration of just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. This is a continually building data repository of the locations you visit, along with times and dates, detailed maps, even the mode of transport to get you there and how long it took." 2020: Why You Should Stop This ‘Hidden’ Location Tracking On Your iPhone - https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/10/04/apple-iphone-12-location-tracking-in-ios-14-upgrade/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/10/04/apple-iph... “Both iOS and Google Android transmit telemetry, despite the user explicitly opting out of this,” wrote researcher Douglas Leith from Trinity College in Ireland, in a recently published academic report ... “To date, Apple have responded only with silence (we sent three emails to Apple’s director of user privacy, who declined even to acknowledge receipt of an email,” Leith wrote. Since then, Apple has made public statements critical of Leith’s research and insisting privacy and opt-out measures do exist. 2021: Apple, Google Both Track Mobile Telemetry Data, Despite Users Opting Out - https://threatpost.com/google-apple-track-mobile-opting-out/165147/ https://threatpost.com/google-apple-track-mobile-opting-out/... "And there’s also a more fundamental issue with this technology. Its euphemistic description as a “crowdsourced” way to recover lost items belies the reality of how these items are tracked. What you won’t find highlighted in the polished marketing statements is the fact that AirTags can only work by tapping into an Apple-operated surveillance network in which millions of us are unwitting participants." 2021: Remember, Apple AirTags and ‘Find My’ app only work because of a vast, largely covert tracking network - https://theconversation.com/remember-apple-airtags-and-find-my-app-only-work-because-of-a-vast-largely-covert-tracking-network-160781 https://theconversation.com/remember-apple-airtags-and-find-... ------ As for "anonymising" user data, Apple has enough data points on its users from various services and sources it collects its user data from to make it meaningless.
- elzbardico 5y ago
  Apple is a capitalistic company, they are not saints. But part of their business model selling hardware and software is partly based on at least maintaining a minimal level of decency, far above what Google and Facebook practice.
  - webmobdev 5y ago
    I don't agree with that view point. As both a user of Apple's products and as a worried citizen about privacy rights, to me it looks like Apple is just using a different approach to collect the same user data that Google and Facebook desire. It is just using the hindsight of how Google and Facebook went about it, and the negative PR they faced, to refine both its data collection process and PR strategy to convey they are saints. (It's a classic Apple way - they observe their competitors and their product for a while, before refining it and launching their own). There is a lot of profit in collecting and monetising user's data - Apple's shareholder will not allow them to leave it on the table. Apple knows that as it was part of the PRISM program and earned a lot of money by supplying the US government it's users data. (Apple also dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusive-idUSKBN1ZK1CT https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusiv... ). And on a different note, in the early years, Google too begin it's spying and data collection by convincing its users that it is a "decent" company.
collaborative 5y ago
The reason "privacy" is in quotes is that some of us have started seeing through what Apple really means every time they use the word. As the EU's Executive Vice-President Margrethe Vestager has recently said regarding their Apple probe, privacy can't be an excuse to stifle competition. https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/07/02/eu-antitrust-head-warns-against-apple-using-privacy-security-to-stave-off-competition https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/07/02/eu-antitrust-head... All was well because nobody was forcing me (the developer) to include anything I didn't want. Users could still use traditional email signup. You are free to choose whom you trust. If your choice is Apple, well, that is your choice
- imwillofficial 5y ago
  Including a Facebook login, and even speaking the word privacy should be a crime in my book.
- spacedcowboy 5y ago
  Indeed it is. And I would choose to trust Apple over some nobody on the internet with a seeming chip on their shoulder (seriously, that post is just cringe) over anyone who promoted Facebook and (to a lesser extent, obviously) Google as sign-in methods. In. A. Heartbeat. You claim (elsewhere) that you only send responsible-sounding emails, but the level of invective in your screed leads me to disbelieve you. Personally, I think HME seems to have been created exactly to cope with people like you - and I’m failing to see this “hype” you talk about. HME makes the value of an email address tend to zero, gives me the ability to cut you off without your agreement (and prevents you from selling my email on afterwards), and places all the control in my domain not yours. That’s simply the truth of the matter, and it’s not hype.
  - collaborative 5y ago
    I challenge you to sign up (with Apple ID if you wish) and see for yourself how many emails you get. Otherwise you're accusing without evidence I don't challenge that Apple ID is a good thing. I protest Apple's method of implementation

raxxorrax 5y ago

These login methods are the least privacy preserving methods to do a login. The identity provider instantly knows which services you use.

webmobdev 5y ago

Only the naive and the ignorant believe that Apple cares about users privacy. All their "privacy" features are just designed to collect more and more data about its users. Even unnecessary data. And they get away with it because of marketing that leads people like you to believe that they can be "trusted" with your data - the same data they use, and will use, to make more money. They have already restarted their advertising network again, like before. They claim they are no longer part of PRISM, a US government program that allowed big tech to sell user data to government agencies.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
RL_Quine 5y ago
They implemented end to end encryption in iMessage to collect more data? There's a vast array of technical instances where apple has gone above and beyond to implement privacy preserving technology, even when they weren't talking about it. This is, like the OP, hysteria without any basis in fact.
- ksec 5y ago
  >They implemented end to end encryption in iMessage to collect more data? iMessage backed up on iCloud where Apple has key to decrypt.
  - nyuszika7h 5y ago
    Well, kind of. Apparently Messages in iCloud is still E2E encrypted, but not if you have full-device iCloud Backup enabled. Though I've often been prompted for my previous passcode to restore data from an iCloud backup, so not sure if anything has changed on that front.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    I'm pretty sure I was asked to provide an additional password to save my messages. Are you sure Apple has a key to decrypt?
raxxorrax 5y ago
At least Twitter used 2FA numbers for advertising. I believe others will do the same.
GeekyBear 5y ago
Apple Maps: >“We specifically don’t collect data, even from point A to point B,” notes Cue. “We collect data — when we do it — in an anonymous fashion, in subsections of the whole, so we couldn’t even say that there is a person that went from point A to point B. We’re collecting the segments of it. The segments that he is referring to are sliced out of any given person’s navigation session. Neither the beginning or the end of any trip is ever transmitted to Apple. Rotating identifiers, not personal information, are assigned to any data or requests sent to Apple and it augments the “ground truth” data provided by its own mapping vehicles with this “probe data” sent back from iPhones. https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/29/apple-is-rebuilding-maps-from-the-ground-up/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/29/apple-is-rebuilding-maps-f... Google Maps: >Google Maps won't let you save home address without allowing all Google tracking https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18070183 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18070183 and >An Associated Press investigation found that many Google services on Android devices and iPhones store your location data even if you’ve used a privacy setting that says it will prevent Google from doing so. https://apnews.com/article/north-america-science-technology-business-ap-top-news-828aefab64d4411bac257a07c1af0ecb https://apnews.com/article/north-america-science-technology-...
- webmobdev 5y ago
  "The iPhone continues to store location data even when location services are disabled, contrary to Apple’s previous claims. The Wall Street Journal did independent testing on an iPhone and found that even after turning off location services, the device was still collecting information on nearby cell towers and Wi-Fi access points." 2011: iPhone's Location-Data Collection Can't Be Turned Off - https://www.wired.com/2011/04/iphone-location-opt-out/ https://www.wired.com/2011/04/iphone-location-opt-out/ "Your iPhone tracks your location for a variety of reasons. It tracks you to calibrate sensors and to improve services, but also to show you ads." 2019: How to stop your iPhone from tracking your location - https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/19/your-apple-iphone-tracks-where-you-go-heres-how-to-see-what-it-knows.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/19/your-apple-iphone-tracks-whe... 2019: It’s the middle of the night. Do you know who your iPhone is talking to? - https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/05/28/its-middle-night-do-you-know-who-your-iphone-is-talking/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/05/28/its-mid... "The best way to keep something secret is not to capture and store it in the first place. And that’s the crux of the privacy versus convenience debate now redefining our applications and software-based services ... Yes, maybe what happens on an iPhone stays on an iPhone, but some data should not be captured in the first place. Nothing more so than the significant invasiveness of Apple’s significant locations concept—a perfect illustration of just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. This is a continually building data repository of the locations you visit, along with times and dates, detailed maps, even the mode of transport to get you there and how long it took." 2020: Why You Should Stop This ‘Hidden’ Location Tracking On Your iPhone - https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/10/04/apple-iphone-12-location-tracking-in-ios-14-upgrade/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/10/04/apple-iph... “Both iOS and Google Android transmit telemetry, despite the user explicitly opting out of this,” wrote researcher Douglas Leith from Trinity College in Ireland, in a recently published academic report ... “To date, Apple have responded only with silence (we sent three emails to Apple’s director of user privacy, who declined even to acknowledge receipt of an email,” Leith wrote. Since then, Apple has made public statements critical of Leith’s research and insisting privacy and opt-out measures do exist. 2021: Apple, Google Both Track Mobile Telemetry Data, Despite Users Opting Out - https://threatpost.com/google-apple-track-mobile-opting-out/165147/ https://threatpost.com/google-apple-track-mobile-opting-out/... "And there’s also a more fundamental issue with this technology. Its euphemistic description as a “crowdsourced” way to recover lost items belies the reality of how these items are tracked. What you won’t find highlighted in the polished marketing statements is the fact that AirTags can only work by tapping into an Apple-operated surveillance network in which millions of us are unwitting participants." 2021: Remember, Apple AirTags and ‘Find My’ app only work because of a vast, largely covert tracking network - https://theconversation.com/remember-apple-airtags-and-find-my-app-only-work-because-of-a-vast-largely-covert-tracking-network-160781 https://theconversation.com/remember-apple-airtags-and-find-... ------ As for "anonymising" user data, Apple has enough data points on its users from various services and sources it collects its user data from to make it meaningless.
elzbardico 5y ago
Apple is a capitalistic company, they are not saints. But part of their business model selling hardware and software is partly based on at least maintaining a minimal level of decency, far above what Google and Facebook practice.
- webmobdev 5y ago
  I don't agree with that view point. As both a user of Apple's products and as a worried citizen about privacy rights, to me it looks like Apple is just using a different approach to collect the same user data that Google and Facebook desire. It is just using the hindsight of how Google and Facebook went about it, and the negative PR they faced, to refine both its data collection process and PR strategy to convey they are saints. (It's a classic Apple way - they observe their competitors and their product for a while, before refining it and launching their own). There is a lot of profit in collecting and monetising user's data - Apple's shareholder will not allow them to leave it on the table. Apple knows that as it was part of the PRISM program and earned a lot of money by supplying the US government it's users data. (Apple also dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusive-idUSKBN1ZK1CT https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusiv... ). And on a different note, in the early years, Google too begin it's spying and data collection by convincing its users that it is a "decent" company.

collaborative 5y ago

The reason "privacy" is in quotes is that some of us have started seeing through what Apple really means every time they use the word. As the EU's Executive Vice-President Margrethe Vestager has recently said regarding their Apple probe, privacy can't be an excuse to stifle competition. https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/07/02/eu-antitrust-head-warns-against-apple-using-privacy-security-to-stave-off-competition https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/07/02/eu-antitrust-head... All was well because nobody was forcing me (the developer) to include anything I didn't want. Users could still use traditional email signup. You are free to choose whom you trust. If your choice is Apple, well, that is your choice

imwillofficial 5y ago
Including a Facebook login, and even speaking the word privacy should be a crime in my book.
spacedcowboy 5y ago
Indeed it is. And I would choose to trust Apple over some nobody on the internet with a seeming chip on their shoulder (seriously, that post is just cringe) over anyone who promoted Facebook and (to a lesser extent, obviously) Google as sign-in methods. In. A. Heartbeat. You claim (elsewhere) that you only send responsible-sounding emails, but the level of invective in your screed leads me to disbelieve you. Personally, I think HME seems to have been created exactly to cope with people like you - and I’m failing to see this “hype” you talk about. HME makes the value of an email address tend to zero, gives me the ability to cut you off without your agreement (and prevents you from selling my email on afterwards), and places all the control in my domain not yours. That’s simply the truth of the matter, and it’s not hype.
- collaborative 5y ago
  I challenge you to sign up (with Apple ID if you wish) and see for yourself how many emails you get. Otherwise you're accusing without evidence I don't challenge that Apple ID is a good thing. I protest Apple's method of implementation